New Echo Motor 2 project, Mines de Douai

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
User avatar
echo-moteur²
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 23
Registration: 06/11/07, 13:21
Location: Douai, North




by echo-moteur² » 06/11/07, 20:24

Christophe wrote:Otherwise general remark: to avoid possible confusion with the Echo Engine 1 project, I advise you to name it echo engine "2" or "²" or I don't know what ... but try to change the name slightly ... otherwise It may be very difficult for the neophyte to follow ...


Could you tell us how to perform this manipulation, and especially if we can do it without recreating another account?

For Pitmix:

Our work includes a realization part, that is to say that we will have to manufacture ourselves a system, on a Diesel engine. But we realized that several people who had successfully installed the system had noted problems with the assembly carried out by our predecessors. Concretely, we cannot be satisfied with testing an already existing assembly, but that would constitute for us a good basis of work.

Thank you

The Echo-Motor² team
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 06/11/07, 20:28

echomoteur wrote:Could you tell us how to perform this manipulation, and especially if we can do it without recreating another account?


I can modify your "nickname" but that was not what I was thinking about but above all in the title of your project and the subject ... that I have just modified the title.

For your nickname it is not very important ... but if you insist I luck ...

ps: tu of rigor on the forums... :)

echomoteur wrote:Concretely, we cannot be satisfied with testing an already existing assembly, but that would constitute for us a good basis of work.


You are 6 you can very well do both!

Action plan: on (= members of the forum) helps you find 1 or 2 vehicles and you carry out // measurements / modifications on a vehicle "yours".

As it can make up to 3 test vehicles ...

Can your lab do tests on industrial tractor-type engines or not?
0 x
User avatar
echo-moteur²
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 23
Registration: 06/11/07, 13:21
Location: Douai, North




by echo-moteur² » 06/11/07, 20:45

Christophe wrote:Mmm what do you have as a test bench because if I trust the photos in the S&V article and if you continue to work with the same laboratory, it was an "engine" bench and not a "vehicle" bench ...

So it will be easier to start with a "new" engine than to dismantle and reassemble the engine of an already modified vehicle?

If you have access to a "vehicle" bench, where exactly is the test laboratory located and how long do you need to real estate the vehicle (or?)?


Unfortunately, for the moment perhaps, we only have access to an engine test bench. This therefore requires "removing" the engine of the vehicle in question and therefore requires a lot of downtime.

We are in contact with CRITT M2A (Research Center for Technical Innovation in Motors and Automobile Acoustics - http://www.crittm2a.com/) from Bruay-La-Buissière (62). It is here that, like our predecessors, we will carry out the tests.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 06/11/07, 20:51

echomoteur wrote:Unfortunately, for the moment perhaps, we only have access to an engine test bench. This therefore requires "removing" the engine of the vehicle in question and therefore requires a lot of downtime.


An engine test bench is better, it allows you to do more "things" ... on the other hand I doubt that kk1 will lend its vehicle for a complete removal of the engine ... :(

So you would have to find one or two engines (tdi and hdi if possible) and make the changes as quickly as possible ...

echomoteur wrote:We are in contact with CRITT M2A (Research Center for Technical Innovation in Motors and Automobile Acoustics - http://www.crittm2a.com/) from Bruay-La-Buissière (62). It is here that, like our predecessors, we will carry out the tests.


Notice to amateurs! It's in the North ...
Do they make industrial engines? According to their name no but good ...
0 x
User avatar
echo-moteur²
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 23
Registration: 06/11/07, 13:21
Location: Douai, North




by echo-moteur² » 06/11/07, 21:12

Ok for the modification of the nickname to “Echo-Motor²”.

Correction: we are 7 members in our team. By cons, academically, we can not afford to work 7 on the assembly. Everyone has a defined role within the project team, the composition of which is as follows:
- A team leader
- A treasurer / Webmaster
- Two communication officers
- Three people in technique

The idea proposed is however good but impracticable.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 06/11/07, 21:17

Modified username is going to require that you relocate.

What idea exactly are you talking about?

Otherwise ok for 7 including 3 + 1/2 (the chef :D ) to technique!

It’s already a lot of arms and the 2 to the com. it's good but before communicating must have results ... so no way to put it on the technique to 1/2 time? : Cheesy:
0 x
User avatar
echo-moteur²
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 23
Registration: 06/11/07, 13:21
Location: Douai, North




by echo-moteur² » 06/11/07, 22:08

Thanks for the nickname modification, obviously it works well.
Regarding the idea, it was about testing 2 or even 3 cars.
Our goal is to test the assembly that we will have carried out, and possibly the assemblies that some would lend us.

But we should not be "ignited" either, because the technical part, and the realization of the assembly, represent only a part in reality of our project. The writing of files, just like the search for sponsors, constitute elements which will be "red threads" of this project, and which do not allow us to bring together the 7 people in the technique. It is for this reason, moreover, that we wanted to define each person's roles as quickly as possible.
.
Regarding the engine chosen, we were thinking rather of simple diesel engines, that is to say slightly older engines, and not overly sophisticated engines, and especially embedding too many electronics, like HDI and TDI which had been mentioned.

The Echo-Motor² team
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 06/11/07, 22:10

Hello

It will be our pleasure to advise you, so as not to make all the mistakes that we have made, so as to obtain results from the start that you will then improve.
it is necessary to aim for a 30% saving, depending on the design this can be effective only with a certain load. the doping on the water works with a minimum temperature
the principle is set at the maximum torque speed and under load all the running reactors.

take measurements before installing anything
consumption, power, exhaust outlet temperature

First choose an atmospheric diesel that the exhaust manifold is accessible, to house the reactor as close as possible to the cylinder head pipe outlet, so as to have the short reactor outlet close to the intake.
therefore the old diesel engines with indirect mechanical injection with intake and exhaust on the same side is best suited for ease of assembly.
If possible, bosch pump to also test with vegetable oil
and reactor (yield slightly weakened with oil in my case difficult to exceed the 25% savings and I don't know why?)

Predict that the rod is easily disassembled to study its oxidation and cavitation behavior. and replace it with other steel, cast iron, stainless steel materials.
the restriction to the exhaust caused by the reactor penalizes the maximum power, but it is a necessary evil to have the maximum heat on the nose of the reactor at low speed.
For the bubbler, choose the GV a Michel which is more practical, although if you can make different assemblies with the same reactor, this will confirm the difference, bubbler GV or water spraying, or fogger that I tested

Before starting the work well study the way to install and the right physical place on the engine, the installation of the reactor must be final, the accessories around easy to change or modify for improvement.
Provide 3 temperature probes to measure
one on reactor wet air inlet, one on reactor outlet, one on reactor end exhaust and optional one on reactor inlet exhaust (the exhaust gas temperature differential before and after reactor is an index of the efficiency

If the engine is of low power a rod of 200mm
let's say that for the details we will talk again ..

Andre
Last edited by Other the 06 / 11 / 07, 23: 14, 1 edited once.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 06/11/07, 22:21

echo-moteur² wrote:Regarding the engine chosen, we were thinking rather of simple diesel engines, that is to say slightly older engines, and not overly sophisticated engines, and especially embedding too many electronics, like HDI and TDI which had been mentioned.


Uh for me it was:

TDI = old generation
HDI = cDi = sDi = new generation

The town hall of Vitry has results on a Master cdi, so we should also try on this type of engine otherwise I can already hear your (our) detractors say:

"your thing is shit it only works on old engines"

Electronics shouldn't be a big hindrance to getting results, however, the type of regulator is fundamental !

Andre wrote:(yield a little weakened with oil in my case difficult to exceed the 25% savings and I do not know why?)


What if it was because there was less carbon in the oil than in the fuel? Or rather that there is more O2?

Andre wrote:For the bubbler, choose the GV a Michel which is more practical, although if you can make different assemblies with the same reactor, this will confirm the difference, bubbler GV or water spraying, or fogger that I tested


Here are some tips for GV:

https://www.econologie.com/wiki-moteur-p ... n%C3%A9%29

https://www.econologie.com/wiki-moteur-p ... _%28GVI%29
0 x
User avatar
bob_isat
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 290
Registration: 26/08/05, 18:07




by bob_isat » 06/11/07, 22:36

Hi guys,

I am the author of the credible explanation, fruit of months of unemployment to haunt the web. It fits in a few words:

- Several patents, referenced in my document, state the influence of OH radicals on the improvement of combustion.

-Several laboratories are working on improving the combustion provided by the OH radicals, and more generally, the electrically excited species.

-The pantone system consists precisely in producing water vapor and in relaxing it in contact with a metal, which experimentally gives it an electrical charge.

This explanation is currently the most attractive because many comments made by users go in its direction.

As for the recognition of this hypothesis by other scientists, I took a serious blow but everything that does not kill us makes us stronger so I sharpen my arguments and sources.

And of course, I am fully with you! (if you have the opportunity to test on bench the influence of the pH of the bubbler water, it could also help to grow ...)
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Water injection in the engines: the assembly and experimentation"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 190 guests