Pantone engine Toyota Hilux 2.4L

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 13/05/06, 23:23

Yes that's what I thought too.
But according to André's experiences thanks to water doping it is possible to deplete the carburetion as much as possible by replacing the carburetor nozzles without having the disadvantages of too much depletion. Perf losses and engine overheating.
In this case the economy is more important.
It is true that André obtained satisfactory results on his petrol car but it is not only thanks to the Pantone.
He suppressed the EGR valve and twisted the lambda probe.
On my car there is nothing of all that but anyway we enter here in an area that I do not master.
That's why I can't do it.
On Diesel in my opinion it is simpler because the engine accepts more easily an approximate air / water dosage.
I swallowed vaporized water to a Diesel engine without any worries. Laurentdelaon makes his engine swallow water vapor with success and Lau obtained results the first time because he made a good reactor which heats well it is well sized and uses a bubbler which allows good vaporization of the water.
But by doing the same on my petrol car, I didn't get anything really significant.
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pluesy
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by pluesy » 14/05/06, 01:17

on the pantone there are two possible air inlet:

by the bubbler (it then passes integrally into the reactor and certainly participates in the reaction if there is one) and at the outlet of the reactor (mixed with what comes out of the reactor) but at this point an air intake makes lower the depression and therefore the efficiency of the reactor but also the efficiency of the fuel which then turns lean

we can compare a carburetor whose venturi is 30mm in diameter or about 700mm2 in full opening to the passage section of a pantone (about 50mm2)
if we do not pass steam in the air gap (and therefore only air) we add an additional 7% of air at full gas 14% at mid-gas and 28% at 1/4 of gas is an air ratio / petrol can vary from 14/1 (pantone closed) to 18/1 (butterfly 1/4 gas and pantone open)

it is true that by reducing the diameter of the nozzles (or by using a single-point injection in place of the carburetor) one can go down even lower but if there is an accidental lack of water in the bubbler the engine risks have a little warmth ... : Lol:

note on my old bx petrol fuel I have already turned with ratios higher than 25/1 (jet 1st body completely blocked and forced to turn on the second body with the additional air of the 1st body) I only grilled 3 spark plugs on the 4 and after cleaning the fuel and changing the spark plugs the engine was running ... : Lol:
Last edited by pluesy the 14 / 05 / 06, 09: 44, 1 edited once.
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 14/05/06, 08:14

pluesy wrote:on the pantone there are two possible air inlet:

by the bubbler (it then passes integrally into the reactor and certainly participates in the reaction if there is one) and at the outlet of the reactor (mixed with what comes out of the reactor)


In the second case you are talking about an assembly in 100% Pantone.
On water doping to my knowledge no one has ever installed an air valve at the outlet of the reactor.
In 100% It is mandatory to give air to the engine since there is no carburetor. On the other hand, water doping keeps the original carburetion system, so any additional air supply is not desirable, although almost compulsory.
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lau
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by lau » 14/05/06, 09:57

geotrouvetout wrote:Hi Lau,

and nickelling your bar, would be cheaper than a nickel bar ???
GEO : Idea: .


yes geo, surely!
it remains to be seen whether the action of a 100% nickel bar is the same as a simple surface nickel plating of a steel rod.
I feel like we are really swimming in the fog.
When I think of the gear and funding that some research centers have with guys with a great knowledge in the field of physics and current technology !!
https://www.econologie.com/forums/depollutio ... t1864.html

But still, they have kids these guys! and it does not bother them that their children will find it harder and harder to breathe with all this pollution? ... what do they do with their free time ... surely not worry about lowering our pollution :!: Emission gas depollution programs are powder in the eyes.
It was my little Sunday morning hangover :x
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pluesy
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by pluesy » 14/05/06, 10:08

this is why it seems more difficult to pantonize a gasoline in doping with water or we have air management as an additional difficulty

André's recipe would therefore be to impoverish the mixture as much as possible via the carburetor or electronic injection and to compensate for the rise in temperature by injecting water via the pantone

if it is easy to fool the calculator by putting a knob on the probe which measures the air flow in electronic injection

it is less obvious on a fuel (change of injectors or addition of a variable air intake downstream of the fuel).

but if it works it might be worth a try ...
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geotrouvetout
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by geotrouvetout » 14/05/06, 12:49

Hello,

For lau, it remains to know also the resistance of nickel plating on steel (fluid, gas and temperature).

Another thing, I looked at the photos on page 11, are the centralizers conductive or insulating, I always thought (maybe wrongly) that if the centralizers are conductive, there is a short circuit between the tube and the closed off :!: .

GEO : Idea: .
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by bolt » 14/05/06, 13:17

pluesy wrote:this is why it seems more difficult to pantonize a gasoline in doping with water or we have air management as an additional difficulty

André's recipe would therefore be to impoverish the mixture as much as possible via the carburetor or electronic injection and to compensate for the rise in temperature by injecting water via the pantone

if it is easy to fool the calculator by putting a knob on the probe which measures the air flow in electronic injection

it is less obvious on a fuel (change of injectors or addition of a variable air intake downstream of the fuel).

but if it works it might be worth a try ...


hello pluesy
We can assume several causes and effects:

1) the fact of eating a warmer mixture with the engine can induce a better combustion (not too much not to create self-ignition), and of this fact, a mixture in good explosive proportions before, can get too rich the simple fact that all the fuel is used (less unburnt)
and above a certain limit, the yield is less good, it becomes essential to limit the fuel
ex a little similar: too cold (at start-up), you must put the choke, then the mixture becomes too rich with the rise in temperature
in the above case, we would have the impression that, pantonized, canceling the starter is not enough, we would like to "push it" even more

2) pantonization creates additional "fuel" and distorts the explosive relationship
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lau
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by lau » 14/05/06, 14:43

geotrouvetout wrote:Hello,

For lau, it remains to know also the resistance of nickel plating on steel (fluid, gas and temperature).

Another thing, I looked at the photos on page 11, are the centralizers conductive or insulating, I always thought (maybe wrongly) that if the centralizers are conductive, there is a short circuit between the tube and the closed off :!: .

GEO : Idea: .


the iron centralizers are conductive, anyway I do not put any more now.
this morning I climb a collar with the car by making it force a little. I removed the reactor which has barely 100 terminals: there was already a film of rust coming from the bubbler and which I wiped. The stem is gun colored as André said; it is true that on this one, the torch helped me a lot. No heating point yet.
I ground the beginning of the rod to make it conical; the centering pins are adjusted and the reactor is put in place with a hammer, there is no vibration.
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Other
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by Other » 14/05/06, 15:54

Hello Bolt
The Lambda probe is currently only used for an instrument
measurement so when I read it I adjust the ratio, it is between 50millivots to 10millivolt,
without adjustment and at idle, this is 900 millivolts, when the system was original it operates 450millivolts or a ratio 14,7 / 1
the curve is difficult to read in the values ​​50mmilivolts I estimate
a ratio of 18/1, normally without pants at 18/1 the engine runs but it does not pull it takes more gas pedal to roll at the same speed,
what comes out of the reactor does not cool the gas intake on the contrary it is around 150c is sometimes more ..
When the bubbler empties and I run dry with water I notice it quickly enough, the engine does not pull anymore, (it cannot clicked there is a knock sensor)
Before I depleted it by ear I decrease until the engine weakens and I enrich slightly until it runs well)
I repeatedly repeated the test with the original Lambda probe to connect the consumption is higher (it would be desirable for simplicity to leave operational, but there is a difference.)
What water doping allows in a petrol engine is to have torque with a low ratio, that's all.
and the more the filling of the engine is important, the throttle valve open mounted on a hill with a tracker, we just lean more.
I think that one should not make a total comparison with a diesel and an explosion engine, there is too much difference in the combustion cycle.

Hello geotrouvetout

We are in the process of tweaking Lau's post which was dedicated to the toyota

For centering nipples and insulation, this is not very important.
once the rod (lapped) it is covered with a film of insulation
and the steam circulates on this insulator, On my diesel the rod is welded by a centralizer on the reactor .. (tanner d hear it vibrate)
I tested a steel rod with an insulating tape of teflon and all covered with a stainless steel tube, I did not notice any notable difference for a 100% panton, (I now specify after many observations of differences with the water doping)

Andre
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lau
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by lau » 30/05/06, 17:42

Hello!
here I cut my bubbler to turn the iron grid which rotted everything and especially change the 1/2 inch suction tube to put a 3/4 inch pierced with small 3mm holes; I also took the opportunity to enlarge the window so as not to lose a crumb.

The new 3/4 tube seen from below before closing
Image

Ready to assemble
Image

stainless steel welding
Image

ready to mount
Image

The bubbling is even more sensitive than before and to the ear, it looks like bubbling in a cathedral.
the frequency is much higher, as in a background sound which resonates ... quite impressive when I think that I only increased the diameter of entry and made an air passage through holes instead of the slots before.
Image

My iron rod positioned as inside. I have to run it a few hundred more km
Image
Last edited by lau the 30 / 05 / 06, 22: 30, 1 edited once.
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