Moto 1000 VOXAN doping steam

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
MichelM
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by MichelM » 26/06/08, 11:37

Indeed the Cx of motorcycles is in general very bad, on the other hand the performances often much higher. However at around 100 km / h stabilized I go down to less than 4 L. Also (unfortunately) a lot of motorcycles are designed for performance with engines that run fast and therefore consume quite a bit in proportion. A single cylinder like the BMW F650 (which still make 50CV and have 4 valves etc) runs slower and consumes 3,5L to 4L on average, ditto for a "small" Harley (883 cc) with a rather slow engine (long course) does not consume much. A 1000 cc whose engine does not run too fast consumes less than a 600 cc which runs fast.
And even a modern car in town it can easily go up to more than 10L if you follow the pace of a motorcycle.
I reproach manufacturers for not being reasonable and not also offering vehicles that are less "crime-prone" and less greedy, but that may change, especially with the crackdown on speed ... It is often difficult to resist with a motorcycle whose engine only asks to run fast and is borderline unpleasant at low speed.

Michel
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by Christophe » 26/06/08, 12:03

MichelM wrote:And even a modern car in town it can easily go up to more than 10L if you follow the pace of a motorcycle.


Uh it's possible to follow a motorcycle? : Mrgreen: An 125 4 tps can be?

My 1ere bécane, an 600 diversion, known to be really choppy (you'll confirm I think) was doing 0 to 100 in 4.4s.

My current VFR is 3.5s I think, must have a lamborghini to make 4 s 0 to 100 by car.

By that I mean that a car that really has the performance of a motorcycle will consume between 15 and 20L / 100 and we therefore fall back into the "logic" of physics.
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MichelM
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by MichelM » 26/06/08, 13:44

Yes it's true Christophe we have the performance (in acceleration less vitse peak) of a super sports car while we chose a bike a priori quiet. I hope that the pressure of the consumers will make the manufacturers return to more sober motorcycles but for the moment it is not the case.
Highly electric motorcycle!
(I think about it but it's a pretty big investment)

Michel
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by Other » 26/06/08, 16:04

Hello
MichelM wrote:Hello

Commissioning of the modified steam generator and lambda probe richness regulation. The regulation is rather slow which can be unpleasant at slow speed and low load (pumping). I can adjust the regulation of 0,1 Volt to 1 V, for the moment I am at 0,4V so close to a standard value (0,45V to 0,5V).
The consumption has for the moment decreased even if the assembly is operational only since 140 km on the 200km traveled:
so 5,7 L in town instead of the regular 6 L I had before. It is little but encouraging.
This is obviously to be confirmed in the long term.
Michel


In the measurement of the lambda probe, take care or you take your mass contact and monitor the ventilation in fresh air outside the probe.
normally if you send enough steam you can get close to zero on reading the probe without the engine weakening, I run a few millivots 100kmh
accelleration it becomes poor but in steady driving it works well .. It's just a question of regulation ..
I still wonder those who are doping with water on a carburetor engine how does it achieve the savings announced?

Andre
Last edited by Other the 26 / 06 / 08, 17: 05, 1 edited once.
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MichelM
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by MichelM » 26/06/08, 16:50

Hello André

Yes I pay attention to the connection and the mass of the probe, I will nevertheless re-check, be careful to see that here I had no original lambda probe and that my regulation is homemade. I still have the problem that the poorer I rule and the more I have a difficult transition from weak regimes and loads to higher loads (jerks, too poor), on a bike it becomes quickly embarrassing more than on a auto which has an inertia that better filters transition problems.

Maybe for those with a carbureted engine there is a slight gain by better flexibility and better mixing of gasoline with air (heat brought by water vapor)?
There are also many who can not really measure their consumption under the same conditions of use.

Michel
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by Flytox » 26/06/08, 21:56

Hello MichelM
MichelM wrote:And also (unfortunately) many motorcycles are designed for performance with engines that run fast and therefore consume a lot in proportion.


The main problem, for the consumption of a motorcycle, seems to be the way in which the ignition advance is managed. The higher the power per liter and the higher the engine speeds, the more the optimum advance is tampered with (with delay) to smooth the power curve. So that the motor is as linear as possible, therefore "easy" to use even for a leek. (avoid kicks in the ass when accelerating by arriving at a "precise" speed : Mrgreen: ).

In fact, this linearity is obtained to the detriment of the yield since the advance is not optimized for large intermediate speed ranges. This technique is the good day kit sellers who slide their case of correction in advance in the wiring of origin of the motorcycles. In fact, they are resetting a curve of advance closer to the optimum of advance for each engine speed.

The motor loses much of its linearity but earns potatoes at certain speeds. As by hazar, we gain in conso (15 to 30%?) And acceleration.
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MichelM
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by MichelM » 26/06/08, 22:18

Hello Flytox

I do not think this is the case for the Voxan, the character is not linear it is even present and may surprise new drivers. Perhaps it's Japanese automakers that make this kind of change?
I think that if there is a bridle there is perhaps more to pass the homologation with noise standards (which are dynamic) and pollution.
For my case I would like to be able to modify the cartography to adapt it to the best especially with the injection of water vapor, but it is pretty well locked by Magneti Marelli (calculator of injection). I know the Direct Link software from Techno Research
Technoresearch.online but that obviously has a cost, but less than changing the calculator. If someone knows a cheaper solution to change the map that he tells me I'm interested!

Michel
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MichelM
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by MichelM » 08/07/08, 07:59

Bonjour à tous

I had a response from Technoresearch for the Direct Link Racing Performance software to modify the original mapping: the software is not compatible with the Magneti IAW26V0.1 calculators installed on the first Voxan like mine. I wonder if they really tried since there is no Voxan in the USA. I thought the dialogue protocol might be the same as the Harley with Magneti IAW26H calculators. I think more and more to switch to calculator MicroSquirt fully customizable but it's a big job of adaptation and development.

Latest consumptions: 5,7 L / 100 kms
the difference is minimal (- 5%) but repetitive and regular.

Michel
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by I Citro » 08/07/08, 08:28

: Arrow: Nowadays, all devices are pretty much the same and interchangeable regardless of the brand of the vehicle.
Injectors 12v 14.5 ohms, lambda probes, depression sensors (MAP) in 5v ...

For who want and can do it, if you find a customizable calculator and you are able to develop the cartography ... It is feasible. : Arrowl:
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MichelM
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by MichelM » 08/07/08, 09:50

Yes it is feasible but I know it takes time just for the adaptation of the connector, it seems nothing but in fact it's still work. I would like to keep the original connector of the Magneti calculator (Cinch 35 points) and interface with that of MicroSquirt. I started to take stock of all the original connections and their location on the connector.
The overall cost is not going to be the same, for the moment my modifications it was the economic version, with a new calculator with lambda probe broadband, acquisition of data, it is another budget ... Will have to save some liters of gas!
When we love (the hack) we do not count!
The MicroSquirt calculator looks good and can do a lot of things, is fully customizable with software sources.
I even believe that the MicroSquirt is able to handle water injection, the MegaSquirt (rather for the car) yes.

Michel
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