Water injection methods in the pantone / engine

[Other]

Hello

The best would be to enslave it by a K probe planted in the exhaust line, and there, it would be significant (the more it forces, the more it heats ...) and undoubtedly easier to realize ...

This is how I measure the reactor performance, a Chromel alumel thermocouple, exhaust gas at the end of the reactor, the lower this temperature, at equal speed, flat road the better the reactor performance.
This even indicates to some extent the consumption,
precise consumption as such does not exactly interest us, it is the variation in consumption that interests us, the final consumption will always remain full to full. or the flow meter
I tried to measure on two candles in series to double the values, On the Mercerdes just take out the plug and place the meter between two candles (resistance varies with temperature) the instruments for these low resistance are not fairly precise ..
Currently my thermocouple is soldered on the exhaust envelope that has too much inertia you have to be patient to read and draw conclusions, but it helps for the improvement of the system.
too much inertia in the confusing measurements,
I'm going to place a real monel probe in the exhaust, a little further (you have to think about the workable side in our traditional assemblies)
The regulation must be done by the temperature, the other methods it is anticipation.
in regulation there are several things to consider
reactor temperature, temperature and the kind of vapor / air before entering the reactor.
the amount that the engine can swallow (the tolerance is higher if the product is well treated)
Just drive without water and force the engine, you appreciate when you open the water that it is able to take, but the reactor cools down quickly, no need to be an experienced driver to feel the difference ...
Once the reactor is hot, I think we should focus on the temperature and the kind of (vapor) that enters the reactor.

Andre

[diablotruc]

Hello,

I have just read your two messages, Michel and André, and I must say that this sets the record straight. There are lots of things I hadn't thought of or thought they weren't important ...

It is true that at constant engine speed a mill can consume almost nothing at all when going downhill, normally on flat ground and really becoming very greedy on a climb.

If I followed you correctly, the water consumption by the reactor should vary essentially with these parameters or rather compared to the energy evacuated by the exhaust manifold and transmitted to the reactor.

There is therefore an ideal quantity of water for all these cases but also a maximum quantity not to be exceeded and this latter is determined by the outlet temperature of the reactor. It is certain that if the reactor is cooled too much it loses all its efficiency.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but I think that most of the systems, be it a mini carb, a bubbler, the GVI or other… have their water flow controlled by the depression in the reactor because the 3 systems are connected to it directly. And this vacuum, on a diesel engine, is roughly proportional to the engine speed.

So, as you say, we would have to find an automated system that allows us to leave only what is necessary in order to maintain the required temperature in the reactor. This complicates the assembly a little more but the idea is in-depth?

[camel1]

Hi Diablo!

... Stop me if I am wrong, but I think that most systems, be it a mini carb, a bubbler, the GVI or other ... have their flow of water controlled by the depression in the reactor because the 3 systems are connected directly to it. And this vacuum, on a diesel engine, is roughly proportional to the engine speed ...

Regarding the GV, the instantaneous consumption of water follows the variations of T ° of the exhaust gases, which is itself a reflection of the work provided by the mill.

And in addition, the depression (therefore the speed) actually has an influence on the max T ° of the steam outlet.

Go see the reflections I give here on this subject:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/dopage-a-la-vapeur-d-eau-t3270-80.html

Good hostels!

Michel

[Other]

Bonjour.

After 1100km done with exhaust gas injection

Advantage: the exhaust gases have a higher pressure than that of the turbo pressure is available at 1500 RPM and makes a beautiful almost transparent mist
at 3000 rpm the pressure is too high it starts to spray larger drops, the water consumption increases too much for these diets.
The gases are hot it sprays water well in aerosol
No more need to have a venturi restriction to have a suitable vacuum to operate the water carburetor

Inconvenient
The main thing is the fouling of the reactor to the outlet, black particles in the outlet tube which was gray with water + air
Water vapor + exhaust, quite sore, the only iron part has rusted, no need to put vinegar in the water.
On a 6 hour trip the consumption measures were slightly lower than my best results (although the water flow was not higher with this system ..

I just modified, to use the air pressure of the turbo to atomize, at first it sprays less water and it starts to work well at more than 2000 rpm, in any case no carbon particles in the reactor.
At low speed no water, the turbo air is less hot than the exhaust,
Next 1000 km

Andre

[Flytox]

Hello André

You made our mouths water, but please give us a little sketch so that we realize your editing.
Goods.

A+

[lio74]

Hello
That makes a lot of systems

bubbler
Steam generator (Michel)
Carburetor (ZAC)
Nebulizer
Mechanical injection (MMM, Michelm)
Exhaust gas spraying. (among the first montages that I had experienced. sometimes you have to go back)
Andre

good evening everyone

first thank you andre for this very interesting little summary !!
a good subject ... it is true that the reactor is concerned, we are going to start to master the thing and it must be very simple physics (if I can say ... no miracle what!) we transform (or prepares) steam in a particular state by flow phenomena (annular section, friction between rod and tube ...) added to thermal phenomena (heat of the exhaust)!

but concerning the production of steam ... it's another matter

the GV seems to be a good solution for vehicles, because it responds better to variations in speed apparently ... remains the problem of the reliability of the cost level ... a small fuel at the entrance of the GV can help ... ( concern me realization in short ... assembly already realized by other) ... to see

for biablotruc:

Hello
Quote:
As I cannot experiment with you, I often remain to read you in silence. I understood that it was not well seen,


Not well seen it depends who judges .. Not everyone has' tools and the possibility of making montages,, On the forum the contribution of all knowledge is very useful.

exactly ... everyone's contribution is important, after that it is not a question of spreading in blah ... it is true that it is better to try to put it into practice, but not everyone has no access to a workshop and a good welder on hand

Quote:
The idea is there, but we always come back to the same problem, the lack of means. To do well, it would require funds, a test band, time ... In short, a small miracle.

For the miracle, we take care of it ...

always ... when will we (the pantoners) have the necessary weight to set up a bench to lift these mountains from ...

it comes, it comes ... very slowly, but it is surely preparing
this is why we must combine our efforts and our skills!

well, I'll come back to see you (the Epotes) soon ... visit the beautiful local as soon as I have something concrete ...

@ + the eco-friendly !!

[gilgamesh]

Hi,

I thought a lot about these subjects during the holidays. It is true that with more means and more professional possibilities many of these problems would have solutions quite easy. I imagine a water injection system using the signal from the central injection system and operate in parallel an additional injector with an extra bomb. As would have a real flow of water depending on the fuel injected at each moment. It is doable and not too complicated for someone who dominates the subject. For the rest, I propose an adjustable venturi to adapt the suction in the reactor to an ideal level for each operating regime. There are adjustable venturi with servo for industry and in principle it is a hydraulic problem which has already been solved in other applications. I did a little research on the internet and there are quite a few things at this level. It is certain that a system that can be mounted on any vehicle must be a little more flexible but also more complex.

[lio74]

Hello
What surprises me about this montage is the temperatures
[...]
I have an assembly (approximately) similar with routing in the exhaust before entering the reactor the temperature measured before entering the reactor at 100kmh is held around 30c to 40c most often at 33c, the outlet temperature 130c and sometimes 180c it fluctuates over the first 10km then on the highway it stabilizes around 130c ..

Yes indeed ! I can't say too much it's not our montage ...

what I found interesting was the way to adjust the flow rates!

our association will mainly work on electro groups, so no fluctuation problems.

we opted for the GV ... may we have to start with a bubbler !?

the problem with the GV is the reliability of the constant level! so we're looking to work around this problem. From our experience, just in static with transparent pipe, the float triggers 1 time out of 3 then with the suction of the engine ... the float must almost remain open permanently (fear of sucking water and coinciding the engine!)

a solution considered would be to use the mower's carburetor or to make our own carburetor:
=> modification of the float tank to have a larger volume to avoid the suction of the float and put a nozzle tube
=> make a venturi with air inlet adjustment
the whole place before GV !!!

since we are on a constant diet it's a lot of mess for nothing!

what do you think (Andre) is the best way to produce steam for an electro group! ??

Thank you in advance !
A+

[zac]

hi lio

on GE the "spad" system is nickel.

if you don't want to mess around with soldering the whole "box" take a metal plug, put it in the reactor inlet tube and drip with a scavenged perf that falls into the metal plug.
then rule by ear (starting base for a 2l 4cyl of 60cv 14 tastes min) after adapting according to your depression and your displacement.

for andré: well received your mel softening temperature above 600 ° that's why we do not understand

@+

[Other]

Hello

softening temperature higher than 600 ° that's why we don't understand

it would be necessary to measure the temperature, because 600c at the outlet of the reactor I have never managed to climb as high, we must make sure that there is no other factor which softened the duct .. already types 600c in diesel in exhaust (although in the oil and in the floor it must go around)
rest that it is an observation to peel in details ...

For Lio74
make your reactor with an easily adaptable input system
you can try Bulleur, Gv, carburetor nebulizer ect ..

Each system has its constraints is if they are well done they all work

The bulky bubbler, not delicate on the water level and the water quality long response to starting, but simple to achieve well proportioned quality of humid air

The simple carburetor to implement requires clean water, a constant level or a large flat tank.
the need to have a certain pressure for good spraying, therefore small nozzles which limits the volume of air admitted. easily submerged.

The SG quickly implements on self-regulating start
requires a balance between the heating surface and the power
requires level control and nozzles to dose the intake air.

The nebulizer, if it is adjustable works well, but also requires a constant level, clean water, and the lifespan of the membrane is short the water flow is a bit limited.

a tank like a bubbler in which we circulate hot water and let it drop from above like a shower head gives good results, I gave up this principle because of the winter and the strong frozen

The simple system as ZAC says a sponge and a drip it works once well adjusted, I tested it with a felt soaked in warm water works better (too hot it contaminates the drip.
Currently I'm walking with the turbo air spray
This system which is not (simple) gives me a certain regulation to know that it sprays only when the turbo flows and that I can force-feed the air intake of the reactor
not very sensitive to the level of the water in the reservoir, therefore no constant level.
As you can see once the reactor is well installed you can by simple assembly adapt different systems.
Before suspecting a defect in the reactor and the rod, look for the input, almost all systems work more or less well depending on the time you spend on it to develop it.

Andre