Be together ! Overview

[Misterloxo]

By the way Adrien,

I knew nothing about bodywork ... (http://songe.org/carrosserie.html)

I congratulate you ! It's really impressive the job that you have done on this combi

But there we have nothing, really nobody drives with water doping or a traditional pantone. And those who are equipped do not broadcast or almost not for fear? We won't do anything like that ...

I understand that you think that it does not advance fast enough but I can guarantee you that 2 years ago very few people came to the site, very few people knew the Pantone.
Today, we do a lot of visits and many visits come from search engines. C that proves and researches people know about Pantone (and other energy systems).
We even talk about Pantone on the radio!

The energy revolution has started (I will say for at least 20 years!) And I think it is not ready to stop .

We can no longer stop it thanks to the information revolution: Internet, digital for all ....

Point 1

If the industrialists take over the project in the near future, all that will have been for nothing

Me, I think on the contrary will already be a victory. Even if I don't get any profit from it. The important thing is the environment! It's urgent!
And too bad if it is still the industrialists who are putting money in their pockets. Because who has the means to make modifications and mass produce millions of vehicles equipped with such systems?


Point 2

A maximum of people should install the system on their vehicle, even if it is limited by our DIY means, it would already be huge!

For me, point 1 will be a consequence of point 2

A+

[Superform]

I too understand the concerns of olive trees, when we see on the ZX project:

more than 1000 hours of work

when you know that it was on their personal time, that the hourly minimum wage was € 8,5 (€ 16 for the employer in all), if they get stung by the industry it still makes € 8500 stolen , € 16000 saved on R&D (a waste for industrialists, okay)

So, I think it's normal to be a little paranoid ...

[Christophe]

I agree with the 2 messages from MisterLoxo (by the way what is your first name? We are intimate now;)) ... Adrien I personally have the impression that you consider industrialists as enemies ... Why ? It is only with them and their means that we will really be able to do something ... You just have to "convince" them and be stronger than the lobbyists who are above them! (obviously the industrialists who seek to block the system I also consider them as enemies or obstacles to cross at least ...)

If the industrialists develop the system or a variant (with or without us) it will be a victory for the environment and future generations ... and even if we have no direct fallout, our whole life we ​​could say that it was all of us who were behind this. Know that I have not earned a cent since I "work" on this subject ... obviously I do not count the hours spent on econo, the zx or the dissemination of information ... Sometimes I wonder if everything it's worth it ... I would probably be so much better (materially) in a BE as an engineer doing the classic metro / work / dodo ... but here is something deep inside me that tells me : persevere it's worth it ... I don't know where it comes from and I hope I am not mistaken .... but one certainty is that without you and your support I will not last much longer ...

The one who fights risks losing ... The one who does not fight has already lost!

Then if we will get there (all together), economically, this will undoubtedly also take precedence in the history of capitalism: for once the interests of the majority come before those of a minority which has power and which exploits this majority !

And this is priceless!

When in the absence of testimony on vehicles I believe that you will do well to go for a ride on quanthomme ...

[Christophe]

more than 1000 hours of work

1000 h it was all inclusive: 3 versions + electronic assembly etc etc ... Everything to try to understand and master the system ... The conclusion is that we are still far from mastery and that we can no longer go further with our personal means ..
This does not mean that modifying a car with the basic assembly will not take 1000h ... far from the ..

A few tens of hours at most ...

[Adrien]

- I have read re-read Quanthomme, I know that there are cars with water doping ... But there are only a minority! Not even 0,01% of cars in France! (and still I think big)

- Yes indeed I consider industrialists as enemies. For them money is more valuable than the life of a living being (there are not only men on earth!).

Which manufacturers do you consider "friends"?

What is the difference between manufacturers and lobbies?

- I think it would be much more interesting if the people finally moved their ass. Where is the world going? I do not think that the "sustainable" future lies in the industrialists. We must count on us, not on those who have money and who aspire only to have more.

Good night, Adrien

[Misterloxo]

Which manufacturers do you consider "friends"?

I believe that it is not really a question of industrialists friends but rather than "to confront" the industrialists, it would be "easier" to use them to arrive at a generalization of such systems.

What is the difference between manufacturers and lobbies?

I am not a specialist but the lobbies are common interest groups made up of industrialists, big bosses, politicians ... (well not all) and who exert pressure by all means (influence politicians, economic pressures , partnership, patronage ...) available to them to prevail THEIR interest.
Thus, some manufacturers are under the thumb of certain lobbies. For example, I believe that the oil lobby must more than influence the automobile manufacturers so that they do not go too fast in the development of means drastically reducing the consumption of vehicles.

- I think it would be much more interesting if the people finally moved their ass. Where is the world going? I do not think that the "sustainable" future lies in the industrialists. We must count on us, not on those who have money and who aspire only to have more.

If I extrapolate a little, you advocate the taking of the Bastille version 2004 lol

Good on that, ciao

[Joe Flachy]

Hello everyone, I just found out what forum by looking for documentation for a handyman wanting to test the Pantone on a 2CV. I therefore seek to form a file, as complete as possible, on the issue. Here are the links I currently have (in addition to yours, thank you!):

www.quanthomme.com
counterpowerecology.chez.tiscali.fr
www.e-2cv.com
www.geet.com
www.jlnlabs.org

There is, in fact, nowhere a detailed plan (apart from the modification of the lawn mower ...) despite the number of modifications made ...

I agree that the Pantone modification must remain "in the shade" for the moment: dissemination to the public will not be made by manufacturers who have no interest in it (oil lobbies), and the implementation setting up a legal structure seems to me the best way to attract sharks ...
If this process works properly, it seems to me that it will have no trouble developing. It just presupposes good will on the part of DIY enthusiasts, so that they modify as many vehicles as possible.
The pooling of plans could have an effect contrary to the development of the process: currently, everyone solves the problems encountered in their own way, there are therefore as many modifications as do-it-yourselfers, hence, ultimately, interesting inventions.

See you soon !
;-) Flachy Joe ;-)

[Blasil10]

Hello !!
Recently registered, I am "in the east". "Professional handyman" .. ;-)). But not "scientific" .. interested in the Pantone system and others for a few years, a generator has already benefited, now a car will be entitled to it, for a while, the time to be able to experiment with several solutions .. results communicated.
For the union project:
Nice, but not obvious ...
1 / positive reaction
2 / In my opinion, there are many people of good will with multiple skills, who are already "on the idea", who have already applied it or not, but who hesitate to make themselves known.
Staying in a framework like "great ecological humanitarian cause" seems to me a reality taking into account all the "money" oppositions: angry: which will be revealed as this type of union develops.
3 / In this spirit // possible too: association law 1901?
Funding: Donations. Motivation: Always in the same spirit, everyone understands that
this system (like others possible), causes a reduction or elimination of pollution from cars or other engines, no need to explain why ... everyone should understand that the problem of profitability of the money invested becomes secondary.
4 / Action plan: as many have already done: go ahead, and share experiences.
** The evolution of all will be with the evolution of each, each to know how to break their own limits.

Optimistic, but we must remain realistic.
I largely share the idea of ​​Christophe's project and the reactions of Adrien, seen on the forum . good evening everyone
J-Cl

[Adrien]

Which manufacturers do you consider "friends"?

I believe that it is not really a question of industrialists friends but rather than "to confront" the industrialists, it would be "easier" to use them to arrive at a generalization of such systems.

What is the difference between manufacturers and lobbies?

I am not a specialist but the lobbies are common interest groups made up of industrialists, big bosses, politicians ... (well not all) and who exert pressure by all means (influence politicians, economic pressures , partnership, patronage ...) available to them to prevail THEIR interest.
Thus, some manufacturers are under the thumb of certain lobbies. For example, I believe that the oil lobby must more than influence the automobile manufacturers so that they do not go too fast in the development of means drastically reducing the consumption of vehicles.

So if I understand correctly, the word "lobby" goes with industrial, but the reverse is not necessarily true?

- I think it would be much more interesting if the people finally moved their ass. Where is the world going? I do not think that the "sustainable" future lies in the industrialists. We must count on us, not on those who have money and who aspire only to have more.

If I extrapolate a little, you advocate the taking of the Bastille version 2004 lol

No, I just dream of a different life.


I just came back from Pontorson where there was an organic salon. 3 cars with water doping were presented, all 3 were driving!

The renault express red presented on Quant'homme,
a 205 which was modified last week,
Traffic that has already traveled 5 or 7000 (I don't remember any more) Km since the modification.

For consumption, it has dropped by around 30% (they don't know yet for the 205 since it is recent).

They use a glow plug to heat the water in the bubbler when the engine is cold.

Sincerely,
Adrian.