Citroën 2CV 602cm3 possible?

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
Pope
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Registration: 20/06/04, 10:04




by Pope » 20/06/04, 14:23

Ok, we are well in phase on the subject. It was voluntarily that I spoke of divine, while reading the presentation of the GEET on Quant'homme, I had the impression of an ideological and mystical cramming, especially in the history of the discovery by Pantone.
I am an engineer (ENSMM) by training and this speech was not to attract me.
I worked for 4 years on the Strasbourg refinery (maintenance) and indeed this process reminds me of what I could understand from the crude cracking phase.
On the other hand, and I approach it on my site, it seems essential to me to know the exact composition of all gases (fuel / rejection) in order to be certain that we are not in the presence of volatile carcinogenic compounds (a vague memory refinery also).
For the links, I'm going to restructure part of my forum to launch the debate on these solutions, and I would make a post of summary presentation where I will indicate your site.

Pope
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lapi
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by lapi » 20/06/04, 17:37

OOPS
I don't really care what gas comes out of the machine
what interests me for the moment is to know if it works
after the components will interress me
to know if we do ecology it does not work if we want to spend less yes it works
because if we use water is not ecological knowing the big problems it poses in geopolitics !!!!!!!!

all i wanted is for people to intercede and move the shmilblic forward
a+
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Pope
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by Pope » 20/06/04, 18:05

Lapi, we agree on the whole! Ok, the system works but in your configuration, it remains unusable on a daily basis. It is clear that doing a test bench with a 2hp engine is nice! But that stops there. Following your post, I read a good part of what was written above on the Quant'homme site, namely the most interesting parts which are the explanations of M.David and the summary of the report of the webmaster of this site .
What I learned from this is that this system could be adapted to a 2hp engine, and greatly improve its efficiency (we can expect 20% gain in consumption), while reducing polluting emissions to almost nothing. (based on standard pollution measures for cars !!!) while maintaining the integrity of the engine. Basically, instead of a carb, we put a geet and keep the classic gas tank as the main supply.
What interests me is having a system that does not change the way I drive and that is completely transparent to use. Why ? Because that's how we can prove the effectiveness of these systems. We are long past the time when we started a car by adjusting the choke, changing the ignition advance and something else. I think that the modifications on the zx were thought in this direction and that if its solutions do not advance, it is that one remains (attention it is not a criticism) to prove that it works but not to make it usable.
I would say that for the moment, I have only seen schematic diagrams. Wanting to free this system was a good idea, but it seems to have stopped there. If I take Linux as an example, this one has progressed because the sources were free, and not just the concept.
Well, I have not yet seen all the pages addressing the subject, and I have seen few elements (apart from those mentioned above) allowing the schmilblick to advance. There are more "I managed to make it work, here are the photos", than other things.
But beware I repeat, this is not a criticism but a first impression.
Thanks to Lapi all the same for having made me discover all of this, because I hadn't hung up on it until now.

Pope
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 20/06/04, 18:16

lapi wrote:OOPS
I don't really care what gas comes out of the machine
what interests me for the moment is to know if it works
after the components will interress me
to know if we do ecology it does not work if we want to spend less yes it works
because if we use water is not ecological knowing the big problems it poses in geopolitics !!!!!!!!

all i wanted is for people to intercede and move the shmilblic forward
a+

g not all understood your reasoning .....

before saying "it works or not" we should also define this term ... kel are the operating criteria for example?
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 20/06/04, 18:18

be careful when i talk about 20% this is the case with water doping.

The 100% pantone version where we pass 100% of a fuel + water mixture (for steaming) could lead to better results ... But this requires laboratory means to be carried out ... especially at level of combustion speed and therefore optimization of ignition advance. It also seems that the octane of this "gas" is very high (like all gases ... see LPG / CNG) so .... the bcp to gain on the compression ratio ... personally I have can't afford to do it all ... but maybe some of you have it? The other big bp will reside in the control of the power ... in short all this should be done on a bench .... Personally I have the motivation and the skills but not the means and that ... saddens me! And I think that "big companies" are not ready to put the means to it ... this solution bothers them .... so it is only on enthusiasts like us that we must count ...:(


For the 100% pantone version I advise you to read my full study ... it is available on the link given above


ps: i just left strasbourg :( shame we could have met IRL ....
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Pope
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by Pope » 20/06/04, 18:43

Okay, I created a forum specific in the deuchist environment ...
I think we can come up with a powerful solution on the 2hp engine. Indeed, some members of the forums are have experience of the 2cv engine (endurance competition for example) and modifications / optimization that can be carried out. We start from a simple and perfectly mastered base.
In addition we will focus on this engine and not on engines in general. Progress will only be made on one basis and I think it will evolve quickly.
Speaking of bench, there is a software allowing to efficiently simulate (error <5%) a dynamometer, and thus to be able to measure the mechanical quantities characteristic of an engine. Searched powerdyn ...

Otherwise, I'm not on Strasbourg either ...

Pope
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 20/06/04, 19:23

me neither on stras .. so po serious ...

thank you for powerdyn I didn't know I think it's time to invest in it ... on the other hand I doubt that the software takes into account the fact of injecting water .... so the possible calculations of cs will be eroded .... then that remains of the simulation .... a real roller bench that would suit us all the same;) but we will buy it all the same! Wonder how it simulates the torque .... probably starting from the displacement filling rate and theoretical effective average pressure .... unfortunately all this can not be simulated in the case of water injection ... .

am i wrong?
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Pope
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I learn econologic
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Registration: 20/06/04, 10:04




by Pope » 20/06/04, 19:30

Read the doc, you will see that it only works with external parameters, and essentially over time to go from one engine speed to another.
The main interest is to be able to compare before / after, because there we laugh at many parameters, since only a measurement evolution is desired.
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Pope
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Registration: 20/06/04, 10:04




by Pope » 20/06/04, 20:15

A precision, also invested on the cable proposed to carry out the measurement. I slammed the microphone input of my laptop by trying the software too quickly, with a cable tinkered in a hurry: angry:
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 20/06/04, 22:08

I agree for the comparison but a paramount parameter all the same in our experimentation is precisely the specific consumption .... or with such a simulation I do not see how to get there ... In short it is not the top but seen the price we will not do without!

For the hardware stuff did you order that or?
http://www.plugnperf.com/fr/
on this site?
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