Water doping on Renault Trafic 2.5l SOFIM

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Paul
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by Paul » 09/07/11, 12:42

and a photo:
Image
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by Other » 09/07/11, 17:23

Hello

It misses the outlet pipe of the reactor as well as its entry in the intake manifold and also to know the depression that you have
I operated for a long time with a small carburetor kind of reduced model homemade in brass while the venturity of the small carburetor was 4 mm one of the disadvantages of this system, it requires a good vacuum so that it sprays water well and also the outlet of the carburetor must lead into a fairly large duct in a place heated by the exhaust, to avoid that large drops stick to the walls and arrive in the reactor
A wet rod and it works more

If I look at your system the auxiliary air intake is useless or even harmful, unless you have a huge depression in the carburetor or that the abusedu carburetor is very small like that of a reduced model COX engine.

What makes the use of the carburetor complex or pulverization it makes drops of different sizes only the drops like emulsion that which flies in the air are usable, therefore a certain volume quite consitant after the carburetor and a warm place with a low point to catch large drops, on the exhaust pipe, to spray them.

the proper functioning of the system depends mainly on the preparation of the droplets that you enter the reactor.
Besides the size it is the bubbler which is the simplest to put into operation

(I did not understand why a bubbler was restricting or losing power on your engine?)
It does not make too much restriction on the original intake, from the engine just a venturia with a fairly large neck the goal is to have a depression with the minimu of restriction
Andre
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by Paul » 09/07/11, 20:29

_
It misses the outlet pipe of the reactor as well as its entry in the intake manifold and also to know the depression that you have


Damn it, I knew I forgot something!
the pipe in question is made of 16 mm copper, but how to measure the depression?

If I look at your system the auxiliary air intake is useless or even harmful, unless you have a huge depression in the carburetor or that the abusedu carburetor is very small like that of a reduced model COX engine.


The auxiliary input has been turned on after rising water, to reduce the vacuum in the carburetor a little (the valve is still almost closed)
(I did not understand why a bubbler was restricting or losing power on your engine?)

I didn't understand either,
It does not make too much restriction on the original intake, from the engine just a venturia with a fairly large neck the goal is to have a depression with the minimu of restriction

for venturia, what are the angles to take, and how to make it, if not with a lathe (not in my possession)?

What about magnetization of the rod?
I heard that it was necessary that the rod was previously magnetized,
impossible with stainless steel.
Or is it the passage of water in a vortex around the rod which creates the magnetic field?
that said, when disassembling the bubbler, I looked at the rod,:
there were deposits of rust (iron bubbler, (fire extinguisher)) on the said rod. strange, if we trust the hypotesis of the vortex created in the reactor.

I would also be curious to see a comparison (photos) between piston / liner, valves etc of an engine without doping with water and a doped one for a long time.
Conceiving that it is difficult to find two engines of the same year having roughly the same mileage, one of which would have been doped with water for at least 50 kms, I would be satisfied with the photos of this engine doped since for a long time (André has been experimenting for a long time if I understood correctly)
My skepticism comes from the fact that it would bother me a lot to break my engine and then have to deny the a priori awesome system of Mr Pantone.
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by Flytox » 10/07/11, 17:44

pablo wrote:
It does not make too much restriction on the original intake, from the engine just a venturia with a fairly large neck the goal is to have a depression with the minimu of restriction

for venturia, what are the angles to take, and how to make it, if not with a lathe (not in my possession)?


The optimal angle is clearly greater than 7 ° (depression far too low). My next try will be in the 10 to 20 ° zone (half angle). In the feedback I have read here, not many people have noted / given the exact angle they are using. : Cry: : Mrgreen:

What about magnetization of the rod?
I heard that it was necessary that the rod was previously magnetized,
impossible with stainless steel.


It works just as well if not better (no corrosion) with a non-magnetic rod (stainless steel), so even if there are possible magnetic phenomena (to be elucidated) during operation, this parameter (magnetic rod, oriented according to .... and other sales pitch) doesn't matter.


that said, when disassembling the bubbler, I looked at the rod,:
there were deposits of rust (iron bubbler, (fire extinguisher)) on the said rod. strange, if we trust the hypotesis of the vortex created in the reactor.


On a rod I noticed a deposit with an obvious trace of rotation of about 90 ° along its length. A very classic aerodynamic phenomenon can explain it just as well or even better. The rod was not perfectly centered in the tube and the play badly distributed and not the same on each side of the tube .... The vapor passes more easily where the maximum play is.

I would also be curious to see a comparison (photos) between piston / liner, valves etc of an engine without doping with water and a doped one for a long time.
Conceiving that it is difficult to find two engines of the same year having roughly the same mileage, one of which would have been doped with water for at least 50 kms, I would be satisfied with the photos of this engine doped since for a long time (André has been experimenting for a long time if I understood correctly)
My skepticism comes from the fact that it would bother me a lot to break my engine and then have to deny the a priori awesome system of Mr Pantone.


Not yet removed the donkey (clear) but after a few thousand kilometers I removed the intake manifold. The intake valve stems were very dirty as usual on a diesel .... except on a valve (cylinder n ° 2 or 3?) Or the stem was nickel, like new. It was not cleaned on its own (no oil consumption between 2 oil changes and 350000 km). Not against that allowed me to realize that the steam supply system did not feed the same every cylinder. :frown: : Mrgreen:

In short, the steam cleans the engine, which I could also see when I acquired the vehicle. It consumed oil from maximum to minimum between 2 oil changes at the mark on the oil dipstick. After the Gillier Pantone assembly and a few thousand kilometers, the oil consumption has decreased and the oil level remains clearly above the mini at the time of the oil change. In short, I think that cleaning the top engine (segmentation) is beneficial for the longevity of the engine.
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by Flytox » 04/08/11, 22:48

Extract of:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/post209460.html#209460


pablo wrote:Hello,
always waiting for a welder (it will come), I could not continue the experiment with the gvi, and with the system of the tube wrapped around the pot, its not really working.
not having been able to make a venturi, I set up a valve system between the air filter and the inlet of the reactor, could it replace it effectively?

I would also like to have details on the "severe bugs" that the GVI experimenters had as well as news about other experimenters (those where its Very Happy market)


Can you explain to us what is your "valve system" ??? :?:

For severe bugs:
The test with a "GVI" made up of 4 small copper tubes brazed to the outside of the exhaust does not work. No "good" steam, inconsistent operation, the solders crackle, the response is not really instant ... to forget. See first part of the post

https://www.econologie.com/forums/dopage-a-l ... t3270.html

AMHA the GVI must be installed tilted or installed vertically but not horizontally. Indeed, the different ones: accelerations, braking, turning turn the water abruptly on surfaces of different temperatures causing unstable functioning. : Mrgreen:

The water level must be more careful than in a bubbler. Attention the constant level made on the basis of steam traps of central heating has a capricious functioning even impossible to make function with the vibrations of the pot or acoustics and other counterpressures which change direction all the time.
: Mrgreen:

The connection water inlet, steam outlet must also be treated (it's hot, it vibrates, there are thermal shocks, the entire pot moves when the engine block moves with the torque variations, when we change speed, accelerates etc ...) There must be a part of the coupling which is flexible on the water inlet.

For example, a 4/6 mm copper water inlet that protrudes 10 cm to accommodate a rubber hose works. The 10 cm in length is so that the temperature drops sufficiently at the end not to burn the rubber when there is no more water. The end of 10 cm should not remain straight, any bending will prevent it from vibrating too much (coming into resonance) and breaking at the base against the pot.

Attention the GVI is often at the lowest point, practically under the car, for the Winter it is necessary to cut the water supply a few kilometers before the stop, this allows to empty it in full, if one is afraid that it freezes and splits.
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

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Paul
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by Paul » 05/08/11, 15:14

ok, gg all this info thank you,
my valve system is in fact a vent of dashboard of GS hack with a spring.
good press sorry, more, and thank you again!
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by Paul » 01/11/11, 19:01

Hi everybody,
well now it's been some time since I mounted the famous GVI. Besides, there is a problem on the plan: it is written
"Empirical formula to calculate these dimensions according to the displacement of a diesel engine with inner tubes of 16/18 mm and outer of 20 / 22mm. "


And on the drawing we see the dimensions 20/22 and 24/26Image





Personally, I took what I had on hand, 16/18 mm inner tube and 20 / 22mm outer tube.

At the beginning, I had put a tubular pressure regulation pipe as Michel advises, but during the tests, it turned out that the depression during acceleration was too great and sucked the float, closing the arrival of 'water. So I cut the pipe and plugged the air intake that it was at the suction, but not that of the tank.
Before: Image

After:Image

What makes that now its walking whatever the engine speed.
And I have a slightly surprising consumption: 4 liters of water per 100 km
So his vaporizes to death, but the problem is that his does not really feel when driving, and consumption either.

As much as I was surprised by the effectiveness of the vortex (I gained 100 terminal on a full !!), but then I am disappointed.

But I'm not giving up, there must be a ball at my assembly, where are the 30% savings?
Is water quality so important? That of my source is limestone, even calcareous. The next tank will be rainwater.

Should I try with a shorter stem? Currently 25 cm.

Is entry into the intake sufficient (no venturi, and tube cut square)?
By the way, how I could measure depression in the system (quite easily I hear).
Thank you for your help

By the way, I soldered everything with the "revolutionary" blowtorch, and it worked! inkredibl!
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by Flytox » 01/11/11, 20:30

pablo wrote:Personally, I took what I had on hand, 16/18 mm inner tube and 20 / 22mm outer tube.


It's good, from one machine to another ... there will always be some variations.

At the beginning, I had put a tubular pressure regulation pipe as Michel advises, but during the tests, it turned out that the depression during acceleration was too great and sucked the float, closing the arrival of 'water. So I cut the pipe and plugged the air intake that it was at the suction, but not that of the tank ....

... Which means that now it works regardless of the engine speed.
And I have a slightly surprising consumption: 4 liter of water per 100 km
So his vaporizes to death, but the problem is that his does not really feel when driving, and consumption either.!


AMHA your constant level doesn't work and does anything. And your consumption of 4 liters ..... is done by the venting of the constant level which robs everything he knows from a certain diet. This kind of dirt hangs open needle. If your engine was eating 4 liters of water per 100 km, you would feel it : Mrgreen: .

As much as I was surprised by the effectiveness of the vortex (I gained 100 terminal on a full !!), ...

Excellent. Can you put the photo and indicate the location?

But I'm not giving up, there must be a ball at my assembly, where are the 30% savings?
Is water quality so important? That of my source is limestone, even calcareous. The next tank will be rainwater.


You should change this constant level system, it's a dead end. After the results can happen. :P

Should I try with a shorter stem? Currently 25 cm
.

Chui agree with André, when you change the length of the rod .... it's difficult to see the difference. It should not be a very significant parameter. : Mrgreen:


Is entry into the intake sufficient (no venturi, and tube cut square)?
By the way, how I could measure depression in the system (quite easily I hear).
Thank you for your help


As a pressure gauge, you can use a 4/6 mm transparent flexible tube in the shape of a "U". Fill the bottom of the "U" with water. Connect it on one side between the engine outlet and the inlet and the other to the open air. With the vacuum, the water rises on the inlet side, and it is sufficient to measure the change in water height. sufficient ..... but you have to be careful ... not to swallow the water all at once on a throttle. The best is to put a sealed chamber (larger than the volume of the pipe) for collect the water in case of problems just before connecting to the inlet. For the size of the "U" plan at least 1,5 m high.
Last edited by Flytox the 02 / 11 / 11, 19: 23, 1 edited once.
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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Paul
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by Paul » 02/11/11, 19:09

yeah
your constant level doesn't work and does anything. And your consumption of 4 liters ..... is done by the venting of the constant level which robs everything he knows from a certain diet. This kind of dirt hangs open needle. If you had 4 liters of water per 100 km, you would feel it Mr. Green.

I had thought about it, but its means that my gv is full of water in this case, and its should still work a little right?
What is better as a CNC?

Quote:
As much as I was surprised by the effectiveness of the vortex (I gained 100 terminal on a full !!), ...

Excellent. Can you put the photo and indicate the location?

uh yeah, that's it:
Image
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by Flytox » 02/11/11, 19:36

pablo wrote:I had thought about it, but its means that my gv is full of water in this case, and its should still work a little right?
What is better as a CNC?


If your mainsail does not produce the "fine" steam because it is submerged under water, your reactor is not going to work well either. : Cry:

CNC ??????

You follow the steam temperature at the reactor outlet? Otherwise it is hard to see if we drowned.
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

 


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