Doping an internal combustion engine with water vapor

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Flytox
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by Flytox » 24/07/14, 22:55

The 12 V pump (capable of a pressure of 6.5 bar) which must supply the boiler has a much too high flow rate (3.2 liters / minute for a need of 0.5 to 3 liters / hour?). We cannot under feed this pump without losing a lot of pressure, so the feed will be done in small regular and adjustable time intervals.

Realization with 2 NE555.

Image

Published on 25/07/2014

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The development is not yet finished ..... there are a few bars missing (3 instead of 6.5) :frown: : Mrgreen:
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by Flytox » 26/07/14, 22:37

Image

BaBar is found : Mrgreen: It was not worth looking on the electronic power supply of the pump ...... there is simply an adjustment screw to adapt flow / pressure on the pump head. (the far left on the photo).
It is the instructions translated to the tears of the Chinese, but they do not even speak of the presence of the adjustment, no diagram .... dem..dez you. : Mrgreen:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

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Ahmed
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by Ahmed » 26/07/14, 22:48

In addition to a sequential supply of the pump, would it be possible / desirable to add a buffer storage to limit the volume variations?
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by Flytox » 27/07/14, 00:04

Hello Ahmed

Ahmed wrote:In addition to a sequential supply of the pump, would it be possible / desirable to add a buffer storage to limit the volume variations?



This is a question that has bothered me since the start of the project. In fact the volume of the boiler is very low and therefore the pressure surges more than probable. Is the valve able to follow effectively ???

No very clear ideas of how to size and where to put this "buffer storage" without creating "parasitic" condensation problems ...: Cry:
How will you see that Ahmed? :P
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

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Ahmed
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by Ahmed » 27/07/14, 09:07

I did not follow the thread of the subject, I reacted to your last message because it joined a problem with which I was confronted a long time ago: how to cheat to smooth the behavior of a simple automation, originally too slow to react.
The solution consisted in adding to it in series a time delay which simulated rapid responses.
In fact, this amounts to establishing two superimposed levels: a precise but not very reactive base and an imprecise corrective but with regular variations adjusted empirically.

In your case, of which I ignore the specifics, it seemed to me that the disproportion between the pump flow and the need for the boiler could be compensated by a buffer tank which would accept a higher immediate flow each time the delay would trigger the pump. , to then release its charge through a nozzle corresponding to the desired downstream flow.
I don't know if from a practical point of view such a device can adapt to your setup ...

Note: above, I started on the assumption of a time delay, since it was in question, but a pressure switch would obviously be more appropriate in this fairly classic configuration.
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by Flytox » 27/07/14, 14:18

Ahmed wrote:... how to cheat to smooth the behavior of a simple automation, originally too slow to react.
The solution consisted in adding to it in series a time delay which simulated rapid responses.
In fact, this amounts to establishing two superimposed levels: a precise but not very reactive base and an imprecise corrective but with regular variations adjusted empirically.


I see what you mean, when the disturbances of the parameters are more or less known and not too irregular, this empirical method can work, it is especially necessary to be patient to watch and adjust the thing. : Mrgreen: In this assembly ("Pantonique" or Pantonisant "?), The variations in heating power of the boiler between idling and cruising or full pot are enormous, and we move the accelerator ... very often and in a manner "random".

In your case, of which I ignore the specifics, it seemed to me that the disproportion between the pump flow and the need for the boiler could be compensated by a buffer tank which would accept a higher immediate flow each time the delay would trigger the pump. , to then release its charge through a nozzle corresponding to the desired downstream flow.
I don't know if from a practical point of view such a device can adapt to your setup ...


As you point out, the biggest problem is the disproportion of the flow of the pump compared to the need. I spent hours and hours looking for the right pump on the net. I found 2 "not bad" but overpriced and for sale only for professionals (or you have to buy 10 or even 100 .... :frown: ). In the end, I came across this one, affordable but whose flow is "very high" ....... and without a proper doc.

But, once the outlet pressure was re-tared, the flow literally collapsed. The 3.2 liters / minute announced is certainly for a pressure within 2 or 3 bar of the original setting. From 4 to 6 bar, I have to measure but it should be closer to the target (gain by a factor of 10?). It may be necessary to resume the tempos of the sequential feed. : Mrgreen:

Note: above, I started on the assumption of a time delay, since it was in question, but a pressure switch would obviously be more appropriate in this fairly classic configuration.

The route for finding a pressure switch, steam, 6 bar, 200 ° C in small diameter ..... it is as common as a casket on wheels ..... and it starts at 500 € and the more often provided for much higher steam / power flows ...... :| :frown: : Mrgreen:

The valve is certainly not the panacea, but it is "only" in the 120 € and in addition it is limited to 180 ° C. :? To see if this compromise works .......
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

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by Flytox » 05/08/14, 23:00

First test of the new assembly:

Image

The pressure does not rise (target between 4 and 6 bars in the condensation chamber).
To try to simplify the assembly, I did not mount a solenoid valve to close off the steam outlet (from the nozzle in boxwood with a diameter of 1 mm) during the temperature / pressure setting. Apparently and unfortunately the quantity of steam produced is not enough to build up pressure.:frown: It is necessary to go up to 130 km / h to arrive painfully at a steam outlet at around 100 ° C.

For the measurement of high voltage, it remained at zero volts. this should be normal given the distance from the parameters defined by Armstrong on his machine.
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by Flytox » 07/08/14, 21:54

For the first test yesterday, with about 50 km the water consumption was very low ..... the needle valve for adjusting the fleet flow became blocked during the journey?
Therefore result to be taken with tweezers. :| :P

Today without the needle valve, the water consumption was enormous and the engine drank ...... at low load, it cut a few seconds, more power, then resumed gently, but without knocking : Shock: : Mrgreen:

In short, for the dosage of water, we will have to resume copying ...
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by Flytox » 12/08/14, 13:24

The boiler starts to operate (build up pressure) :P . For this it was necessary to halve the passage section at the level of the boxwood nozzle and remove the cooling / condensation system (too powerful!?)

On a big acceleration it went up to 7 bars! The plastic pipes of the pressure tap (in Rilsan?) Are provided for 6 bar max .... it didn't even blow up! :x : Mrgreen:

The water supply system allows a large variation in flow rate ..... and therefore there are large variations in the operation and stability of the steam pressure and temperature parameters.

The engine is capable of drinking more than 6 liters of water an hour without saying anything (at low temperature 55 °) ... : Shock: but not with the best instant consumption.

For now, the consumption is comparable to the previous Pantone system. Finally, the results and parameters are still too unstable to make a statement that holds water. : Mrgreen:

On the temperature reading, the vapor temperature "follows" the exhaust temperature with a delay of 1 and a half to 2 minutes.

T1: exhaust temperature; T2: steam temperature.

Image



At the end of the test, the boxwood nozzle had to clog (residues of sealing paste?) And it did not work any more (no more rise in temperature of the vapor). To see when dismantling ....

High Voltage is still waiting on the boxwood sprinkler. It is certainly normal considering that I limited its passage section with a copper wire (diameter 0.7 mm) which must make short circuit. Yapluka find a solid (electrical rod, rod, wire), electrical insulator, resistant to 180 ° C and 0.7 mm in diameter to replace the copper wire ...... if anyone has an idea .... : Mrgreen:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by Flytox » 21/08/14, 23:14

The boxwood nozzle "clogs" after about 25 km. On disassembly ... nothing very visible. :frown: The nozzle makes a "low point" in its end part in the intake duct. This is certainly good for picking up dirt that can hang around the fleet circuit. The next assembly of the boxwood nozzle must respect to arrive from the bottom so that the dirt falls back into the duct (while waiting to find something else : Mrgreen: )

The heating power of the boiler may be too fair. Suddenly a modification of the water supply circuit will preheat it before injecting it into the boiler. The boiler is now insulated. :P

For the High Voltage that I still have not succeeded in obtaining, the rubber of the original intake hose is "insulating" between the points of the Ohm-meter even for a few millimeters ...... but when we put the measuring tips on the Serflex, separated by 3 or 4 cm placed on the same hose, we find a few kOhm ..... : Cry: : Evil: : Shock:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

 


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