Returns Scroll Stop Automatic mode

Water injection in engines: montages and experimentsDoped steam

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 13460
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 434

Unread Messageby Flytox » 24/07/14, 22:55

The 12 V pump (capable of pressure 6.5 bar) to be supplied to the boiler has a much too high speed (3.2 liters / minute for a need to 0.5 3 liters / hour?). We can not under power this pump without losing a lot of pressure, so the power will be through small, regular and adjustable time intervals.

Realization with 2 NE555.

Image

Edited 25 / 07 / 2014

Image

The development is not finished yet ..... it lacks some bars to the appeal. (3 instead of 6.5) : Frown: : Mrgreen:
1 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 13460
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 434

Unread Messageby Flytox » 26/07/14, 22:37

Image

BaBar is found : Mrgreen: It was not worth looking on the electronic supply to the pump ...... there simply has an adjustment screw to adjust flow / pressure on the pump head. (Far left in the photo).
That's records translated to tear the Chinese, but they speak not even the presence of adjustment, no pattern .... dém..dez you. : Mrgreen:
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6886
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 477

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 26/07/14, 22:48

In addition to a sequential supply to the pump, would it be possible / desirable to add a buffer storage for clipping the volume variations?
0 x
"Do not believe above all that I tell you."
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 13460
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 434

Unread Messageby Flytox » 27/07/14, 00:04

Hello Ahmed

Ahmed wrote:In addition to a sequential supply to the pump, would it be possible / desirable to add a buffer storage for clipping the volume variations?



This is a question that bothers me since the beginning. Indeed the boiler volume is very low and therefore the pressure jolts more than probable. The valve is she able to follow effectively ???

No very clear ideas of how to size and put it or "buffer storage" without creating condensation problems "parasitic" ...: Cry:
You see how that Ahmed? :P
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6886
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 477

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 27/07/14, 09:07

I did not follow the thread of the subject, I was responding to your last post because he joined a problem that I faced it long ago: how to cheat to smooth the behavior of a simple control system, originally too slow to react.
The solution was to add to it in a time series that simulated rapid responses.
In fact, this amounts to establishing two superimposed levels: precise but very reactive base and a sketchy patch but with regular variations adjusted empirically.

In your case, I do not know the specifics, it seemed that the disproportion between the pump flow and the need of the boiler could be offset by a buffer tank that would accept a higher Debit each time the timer trigger pump and then releasing its load through a nozzle corresponding to the desired flow downstream.
I do not know from a practical point of view such a device can fit your editing ...

Note: above, I went on the assumption of a delay, since it was a question, but a switch would obviously be more suitable in this fairly standard configuration.
0 x
"Do not believe above all that I tell you."

User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 13460
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 434

Unread Messageby Flytox » 27/07/14, 14:18

Ahmed wrote:... How to cheat to smooth the behavior of a simple control system, originally slow to react.
The solution was to add to it in a time series that simulated rapid responses.
In fact, this amounts to establishing two superimposed levels: precise but very reactive base and a sketchy patch but with regular variations adjusted empirically.


I see what you mean, when parameters disturbances are roughly known and not too irregular, this empirical method can walk, we must above all be patient monitoring settle the thing. : Mrgreen: In this arrangement ( "Pantonique" or Pantonisant "?), Power fluctuations heating boiler between idle and cruising or full pot is huge, and you move the accelerator .... very often and so "random".

In your case, I do not know the specifics, it seemed that the disproportion between the pump flow and the need of the boiler could be offset by a buffer tank that would accept a higher Debit each time the timer trigger pump and then releasing its load through a nozzle corresponding to the desired flow downstream.
I do not know from a practical point of view such a device can fit your editing ...


As you marked, the biggest problem is the disproportion the pump flow versus need. I spent hours and hours looking for the right pump for the net. I found 2 "not bad" but overpriced and sales for professionals (or it must buy 10 or 100 .... : Frown: ). Finally chui came across this one, affordable but whose flow is "very high" and no doc ....... worthy of the name.

But one time re-calibrated output pressure, flow literally collapsed. The 3.2 liters / minute announced it's definitely a pressure in the 2 or 3 original setting of the bar. 4 6 from a bar, I must make the measure but it should be closer to the target (10 gain a factor?). It may be back tempos of sequential supply. : Mrgreen:

Note: above, I went on the assumption of a delay, since it was a question, but a switch would obviously be more suitable in this fairly standard configuration.

The route to research a pressure switch, steam, bar 6, 200 ° C in small diameter ..... it is also common for a roulette coffin ..... and it starts 500 and € most often intended for steam flow rates / far greater power ...... :| : Frown: : Mrgreen:

The valve is certainly not a panacea, but it is "only" in 120 € and in addition it is limited to 180 ° C. :? To see if this compromise works .......
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 13460
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 434

Unread Messageby Flytox » 05/08/14, 23:00

First test of the new installation:

Image

The pressure does not rise (target between 4 6 and bars in the condensation chamber).
To try to simplify assembly, I have not mounted to solenoid valve to close off the steam output (1 mm diameter nozzle in the box) time of setting temperature / pressure. Apparently and unfortunately the amount of steam generated is not enough to build up pressure.: Frown: It takes up to 130 km / h to reach painfully to a steam output 100 ° C.

For measuring the high voltage, it remained at zero volts. this should be normal considering the remoteness from the parameters defined by Armstrong on his machine.
1 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 13460
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 434

Unread Messageby Flytox » 07/08/14, 21:54

For the first test yesterday with about 50 km water consumption at very low ..... the needle valve adjustment of the fleet flow is clogged along the way?
Therefore result to be taken lightly. :| :P

Today without the needle valve, water consumption has been huge and motor bu ...... small load, it cut a few seconds more power, then gently answered, but without knocking : Shock: : Mrgreen:

In short, for the determination of water, we have to resume copying ...
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 13460
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 434

Unread Messageby Flytox » 12/08/14, 13:24

The boiler starts to work (increase in pressure) :P . For this it was necessary shrink by half in the passage section of boxwood nozzle and remove the cooling system / condensation (too strong?)

On a big acceleration is mounted 7 bars! Plastic pipes of the pressure tap (Rilsan?) Are provided for 6 maxi bar .... it did not even farted! :x : Mrgreen:

The water supply system allows a large variation in flow rate ..... and so there are great variations in the operation and stability of the vapor pressure and temperature parameters.

The engine is able to drink more than 6 liters of water per hour without saying anything (low temperature 55 °) ... : Shock: but not with the best instant cons.

For now the conso was matched to Pantone system. Finally, the results and parameters are still too unstable to make a statement that makes sense. : Mrgreen:

On the record temperatures, steam temperature "follows" the exhaust temperature with 1 2 minute and a half minutes late.

T1: t ° exhaust; T2: t ° steam.

Image



On the end of the test, the nozzle in boxwood had to butcher (sealant residue?) And it was not working (most of the steam temperature rise). See disassembly ....

High Voltage is always waiting on the box sprinkler. This is certainly normal since I have limited its passage section with a copper wire (diameter 0.7 mm) which must be short circuit. Yapluka find a solid (rod, bar, wire), electrical insulator, 180-resistant C and 0.7 mm diameter to replace the copper wire ...... if anyone to an idea .... : Mrgreen:
1 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 13460
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 434

Unread Messageby Flytox » 21/08/14, 23:14

The nozzle boxwood "clogs" after 25 km. Disassembly ... nothing very visible. : Frown: The nozzle is "low point" in its end portion in the inlet conduit. This is certainly conducive to pick up dirt that may hang in the fleet circuit. The next assembly of boxwood nozzle must meet to get to the bottom so that the dirt fall into the duct. (While looking for something else : Mrgreen: )

The power of the boiler heating may be too tight. So a mod of the water supply system will preheat it before injecting it into the boiler. The boiler is now insulated. :P

For High Voltage I still managed to get the rubber of the original intake hose is "insulation" between the tips of the Ohm meter even a few millimeters but when ...... measuring tips the one laying on Serflex separated from 3 or 4 cm placed on the same hose, there are some kOhm ..... : Cry: : Evil: : Shock:
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132




  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Water injection in the engines: the assembly and experimentation"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and guest 1