Doping an internal combustion engine with water vapor

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
Janic
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by Janic » 15/11/13, 08:20

flitox hello
why criticize a priori? The system is used to make a "fog" as in a saturated atmosphere which improves the function of the engine. Then that the terms used are unsuitable!? ... the best is to contact Ecopra for adequate explanations. :?
David (quanthomme) put forward the idea that the passage of water through the Pantone reactor not only served to optimize the carburetion of the fuel, but accumulated thermal energy restored during ignition (especially in diesel). I have not read anything exploiting this path elsewhere! Besides, certain economizing systems are content to vaporize, by thermal system, water or hydrocarbon with a similar result;
It would therefore be necessary to compare the two systems!
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by Flytox » 15/11/13, 11:33

Hello janic

Janic wrote:flitox hello
why criticize a priori? The system is used to make a "fog" as in a saturated atmosphere which improves the function of the engine. Then that the terms used are unsuitable!? ... the best is to contact Ecopra for adequate explanations. :?


"a priori" they did not invent anything, just copied what had already been done for years and shown on the net, and for that there is no need to use high-sounding / unsuitable / commercial / GreenWashinsant vocabulary when we are 'addressed to customers "informed users knowing a minimum of mechanics". Error on target !?

After the system has the merit of being minimalist .... to make a mist of water / humid air. They don't even talk about the results ... normal, it's a saver. This is what being at the forefront of "the very latest technology in water doping". : Mrgreen:

David (quanthomme) put forward the idea that the passage of water through the Pantone reactor not only served to optimize the carburetion of the fuel, but accumulated thermal energy restored during ignition (especially in diesel). I have not read anything exploiting this path elsewhere!


There have been debates on Econo of these excellent articles by Mr David on posts from 2005 to 2007? Nothing clear-cut came out of these particularly interesting discussions. Test and laboratory facilities are needed to break down and see more clearly.

Besides, certain economizing systems are content to vaporize, by thermal system, water or hydrocarbon with a similar result;
It would therefore be necessary to compare the two systems!


This is the difference between Pantone (water heating + fuel) and Gillier pantone (water heating). André, who has made several copies of these 2 different systems, will be able to tell us more about them.
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by Janic » 15/11/13, 13:18

a priori "they have not invented anything, just copied what has already been done for years and shown on the net, and for that there is no need to use a high-sounding / unsuitable / commercial / GreenWashinsant vocabulary when we are addresses to customers “informed users knowing a minimum of mechanics.” Error on the target !?
this is the whole issue of the border between information and advertising. Not everyone is familiar with the Gillier Pantone system and this system is indeed minimalist and simple. As a result, it can be considered (by its very simplicity) as "the very latest technology in water doping".
The same question arises for Moreau d'Utopia where the presentation has a mystical dimension, which does not "fit" with a rational and purely technical explanation and generates the distrust of bon ton rationalists. However, I did not find any real-life testimonies of these protesters. It is therefore here, and again, a priori.
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by Other » 16/11/13, 05:37

Hello

We can wonder if this is not the principle of the VIKS system of the 50s, or at least a variant (since now we put water + 50% glycool in the radiators they made an evaporator system and return to the engine
It would be good to have the results of those who have tried and measured the consumption of the VICKS system.

What he is trying to demonstrate is that the rod and the reactor are useless.
A 100% Pantone engine that runs exclusively on gasoline can operate without a rod when it is hot, its performance is degraded, but practically impossible to operate an internal combustion engine with red fuel oil without the rod.
In water doping never try on a rodless diesel,
already it does not operate well when it is cold, or engine cold.


Andre
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by Janic » 16/11/13, 07:53

andre hello
What he is trying to demonstrate is that the rod and the reactor are useless.
it seems to me (but we would have to ask them) that it is rather to present a much simpler system than a Gillier Pantone, without intervention on the exhaust pipe where a mini tool and a lift are actually required, whereas there a simple drill bit, a screwdriver, are enough for a do-it-yourself in the street. Its role is essentially a depolluting function more than an economizer. For a plus you have to go through the GP system but the price is not the same either and for some it can be a positive attempt to move to the next stage.
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by Aumicron » 18/11/13, 09:06

Call Pantone pros for a little boost:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/post265968.html#265968
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by philistine » 22/11/13, 09:58

[quote = "Aumicron"] Calling the Pantone pros for a little help / quote]

Hello, The boost I dream of is the results of tests carried out by an official body. Or failing that, certified by a bailiff.

And someone explain to me why none of the automakers who spend so much money on R&D to gain a few centiliters over the competition would deprive themselves of a system which, if so effective, would explode the sales of the former. who would suggest it.

And also (cf. https://www.econologie.com/forums/post266337.html#266337) why nobody seems to have thought of bringing water to the intake yet with a washer pump connected to a spray bottle. Or simply spray it with a stupid resistance powered by the battery and immersed in a container connected to the intake?
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by Flytox » 01/05/14, 20:25

BEOTIEN wrote:Hello, The boost I dream of is the results of tests carried out by an official body. Or failing that, certified by a bailiff.

It's a dream of course, with a test protocol that holds water too ... the bailiff is not everything.: Mrgreen:

And someone explain to me why none of the automakers who spend so much money on R&D to gain a few centiliters over the competition would deprive themselves of a system which, if so effective, would explode the sales of the former. who would suggest it.

You have an answer from Christophe our webmunster on this subject but chai more in which post.

And also (cf. https://www.econologie.com/forums/post266337.html#266337) why nobody seems to have thought of bringing water to the intake yet with a washer pump connected to a spray bottle.


This has already been tried by devices from the simplest / rustic to the most sophisticated (water injectors slaved to fuel injectors) etc ... There are no "bad" systems a priori, but everyone does not. 'not come to a positive result. While some manage to gain power (Rally Kit) others do not do much visible in relation to fuel or pollution savings ... the main thing is to achieve a tangible result and document it a minimum to be credible.

Or simply spray it with a stupid resistance powered by the battery and immersed in a container connected to the intake?

We can, ... the power will be such sufficient? It's a bit of a shame with next to the orgy of heat energy lost at the pot ...
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by philistine » 02/05/14, 13:25

Thanks for this post.

Bailiff not guaranteed rigor of the protocol, we agree, but it is clear that we have not even had ONE opportunity to criticize one.

Unfortunately, I did not find the answer to "why the manufacturers ..." (but, given the war they are waging I have little doubt because it is difficult to see a cartel including Americans, Europeans, Chinese. .. agree to make us consume what a DIY solution would prevent.

As for the power of a "heating cock", really not the question. First, because if the effect is weak but noticeable, nothing prevents it from gaining momentum. Then nothing prevents starting strong. With all lights off, almost all of the alternator power is available (especially on an old diesel). And if we find that this is not yet sufficient, we can always use an on-board generator. A round trip of one hundred km on the same route on the same day with and without injection of steam and mass would be said. If gain with much more steam than what produces the various hacks recovering calories from the exhaust there would only be to reduce the production until the optimum is obtained, then ask the question of how to get it at a lower cost.

Who can believe that an experience that costs a fraction of the price of the cheapest new cars has not been attempted by a manufacturer? And, having been, that it did not lead to an application which we would benefit from every day for a long time?

Elementary my dear ... Panton!
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by Flytox » 02/05/14, 17:36

BEOTIEN wrote:Bailiff not guaranteed rigor of the protocol, we agree, but it is clear that we have not even had ONE opportunity to criticize one.

The chronic problem of amateurs is not having the organization and the financial means to mount such a manipulation (finalization of the prototype, development of a protocol that holds water with means capable of demonstrating results (positive or negative), participation of qualified people to validate the protocol / handling (engine manufacturers, technicians, usher etc ...)

As for the power of a "heating cock", really not the question. First, because if the effect is weak but noticeable, nothing prevents it from gaining momentum. Then nothing prevents starting strong. With all lights off, almost all of the alternator power is available (especially on an old diesel). And if we find that this is not yet sufficient, we can always use an on-board generator. A round trip of one hundred km on the same route on the same day with and without injection of steam and mass would be said. If gain with much more steam than what produces the various hacks recovering calories from the exhaust there would only be to reduce the production until the optimum is obtained, then ask the question of how to get it at a lower cost.


You can make a prototype, we will follow this with great interest. :P

Who can believe that an experience that costs a fraction of the price of the cheapest new cars has not been attempted by a manufacturer? And, having been, that it did not lead to an application which we would benefit from every day for a long time?


The manufacturers have tried a lot of things, they unfortunately do not communicate much about it ... Some like Renault, have not done that tests, they have also applied a number of patents, in case ... the wind would turn?

https://www.econologie.com/brevet-renaul ... -3435.html
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