Personal work: Gillier-Pantone trimmer

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Jack S.
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by Jack S. » 26/11/13, 21:33

Good evening!

So first of all I would like to thank the people who have kindly responded to this post.

:? For the video Gildas, I looked at it, but I think I left on a montage like this Pantone lawn tractor. The way of doing things looks easier for me to understand. despite the fact that I still do not know what model it corresponds (Pantone, Gillier-Pantone, etc. ???). By cons I feel that it is the same person who makes the video you put. :?:

I do not understand the technical terms used in the videos or on the pages (I think I'll do an internship: P).
Flytox, could we talk in mp for you to explain some terms or plans? Moreover, would you agree to answer my questionnaire?

Chatelot16, I can not go back on my choice, and I must say that I do not want it either. I like to tinker with things since young and I think for my environment it's a good reason to try. (I know it's a little cork but that's what I think). And maybe it will please me to do that we never know! Moreover, if I manage to mount it on a snowmachine, it would be a good step for my region.

Who can I send a questionnaire for my interview? :)

Ah and Flytox, it is in this perspective that I will present my project, do not worry. ;)
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by Flytox » 26/11/13, 22:23

Jack S. wrote::? For the video Gildas, I looked at it, but I think I left on a montage like this Pantone lawn tractor.

The montage of Gildas' video is a "Gillier Pantone". It only vaporizes water. The video you offer is a "Pantone", it vaporizes fuel (here gasoline) and water.

The problem is thatPantone or mixing gasoline and water in the same tank is a heresy. The boiling temperature of gasoline and water is much too different. Clearly, the exhaust gases evaporate much more and much faster gasoline than water. In the tank the proportion of gasoline compared to that of water decreases more and more.

In addition, after a few minutes the gasoline which is made up of many different products has seen all its most volatile parts evaporate and there is only one more and more fatty product ... and incombustible in it. a gasoline engine ..... and the engine ends up stalling without having emptied the tank neither of "gasoline" nor of water. And that's not to mention the incessant air adjustment necessary to avoid stalling .... Search the net, there is at least one video that clearly shows it.

Flytox, could we talk in mp for you to explain some terms or plans? Moreover, would you agree to answer my questionnaire?


Go for PM, no problems : Mrgreen: (You have the icon that goes well at the bottom of the page)
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by gildas » 27/11/13, 19:53

Jack S. wrote:
For the video Gildas, I looked at it, but I think I left on a montage like this Pantone lawn tractor. The way of doing things looks easier for me to understand. despite the fact that I still do not know what model it corresponds (Pantone, Gillier-Pantone, etc. ???). By cons I feel that it is the same person who makes the video you put. :?


Video of Fabrice Donzeau.

In a pure Pantone assembly what to look for is the creation of a plasma in the reactor. Very hard.
An example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_E-Ov6gkLc

My opinion: The rod should not touch the walls of the tube to magnetize just held by a steel wire, not stainless, well profiled.
http://tesla3.com/free_websites/geet_plasma.html

That said I did not try but I was told that the engine was less powerful with a Pantone.
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by Flytox » 28/11/13, 21:08

Gildas wrote:That said I did not try but I was told that the engine was less powerful with a Pantone.


When a Gillier Pantone works well, there may be a small increase in torque / power over a certain rpm range (around the maximum torque rpm?) Due to better combustion.

This does not concern the maximum power at high speed which is necessarily down due to the partial obstruction of the exhaust (which limits the flow of gas) and the heating of the intake gases which decrease the density of the gases / quantity oxygen available. When we put the foot in the bottom with a Gillier Pantone, we pollute to donf instead of depolluting, but it is not the philosophy of the Pantomiste that lead cool : Mrgreen:
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[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by Jack S. » 29/11/13, 06:31

How can the reactor size be calculated? it would be compared to the cubic capacity?
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by Flytox » 29/11/13, 23:24

Jack S. wrote:How can the reactor size be calculated? it would be compared to the cubic capacity?


Whether for a 200 cm3 type mower or 3000 cm3 car some put a reactor of almost identical size in Gillier Pantone.

Basically:
the stem is 120 to 300 mm. (stainless steel works as well as magnetic steel .... but without rust : Mrgreen: )
The game stems envelope makes 0.8 to 1.5 to the radius.
You need a "chamber" before and after the rod.
The rod must be fixed / centered (otherwise significant noise).
The entire reactor shall not shrink the exhaust passage section by more than 30%.
The reactor should be as close to the cylinder head as possible to maximize the maximum heat of the exhaust.
The rod must remain removable (maintains / cleaning necessary every X Km)
This is not the most important piece (in its specifications) of the Pantone Gilier. What is really important .... is the steam with which the reactor is fed.
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http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by gildas » 02/12/13, 23:45

An interesting video on the Venturi effect,
http://www.universcience.tv/video-lisa- ... -4876.html

From 2'50, the ball holds all alone despite the air jet and gravity!

In a pure Pantone assembly, it should be the same for the reactor rod if it is not fixed?
The stem should hold all alone and thus better polarize (?)
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by Flytox » 03/12/13, 23:10

In a pure Pantone assembly, it should be the same for the reactor rod if it is not fixed?
The stem should hold all alone and thus better polarize (?)


If you talk about magnetic polarization, just hold the rod with a non-magnetic metal or ceramic (insulation more). The weight of the rod is rather consistent compared to a ping pong ball, so it would take a rather violent gas flow to get to lift it .... Those who do not fix / center the rod securely 2 side are entitled to an intense noise ... without it working better.

What we can try is to mount a ferritic stainless steel rod. We can have a minimum of magnetism and resistance to corrosion ... if we do not heat up too much ...

http://www.ugitech.com/fileadmin/user_u ... gnet_F.pdf
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http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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by gildas » 04/12/13, 10:55

Flytox wrote:
In a pure Pantone assembly, it should be the same for the reactor rod if it is not fixed?
The stem should hold all alone and thus better polarize (?)


If you talk about magnetic polarization, just hold the rod with a non-magnetic metal or ceramic (insulation more).

Merci pour l'idée!

The weight of the rod is rather consistent compared to a ping pong ball, so it would take a rather violent gas flow to get to lift it ...
That's what I think too, and she'll move to admission ...
For test, I placed a small metal rod with rounded ends in a syringe tube and blown ... of course it's blowgun!
Ditto with a wooden dowel.
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by gildas » 05/12/13, 09:03

Ceramic and metal dilate differently. :(

But a priori we can make holes (without thread) at the ends of the reactor rod and wedge it with springs and ceramic screws?

THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR CIP DOSING
piston + cylinder of the same material
ceramic piston + stainless steel cylinder

http://www.spc.fr/SPC5/dossier_fichier/ ... tation.pdf

Construction of a Pantone for a mower:
http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/4/23/ ... antone.pdf
(If I try this assembly, I will try to jam the rod with ceramics)
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