[Topic Unique] The Pantone FAQ

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79112
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972

[Topic Unique] The Pantone FAQ




by Christophe » 22/05/06, 15:38

Like, I have more than enough to read nonsense on the net or elsewhere and even in magazines about the pantone process, I decided to act once and for all to (try to) break the nonsense and nonsense who are roving (voluntarily?) around this process! (What a long sentence : Cheesy: )

For this I created a Pantone FAQ section on the site, here are the goals in more detail: https://www.econologie.com/faq-intro-articles-2924.html

Obviously as I noted these FAQs are the fruit of the community, your help is therefore welcome for:

1) ask new questions
2) help writing these new questions

So if you had more specific questions or points that are unclear (especially on magnetism ...) or you do not agree with the answers, do not hesitate this TOPIC is made for that! (All alone I'll never get there ... or so it will take a lot more time if I do not despere before ...)

You can also say what you think of the idea ... :?:

These FAQ pages will be constantly evolving so that the truth triumphs! : Mrgreen:

ps: be careful these pages are made concerning the understanding and not the applicaiton of the process. Do not ask questions about sizing on your vehicle! For this is the forum what to visit!
Last edited by Christophe the 29 / 05 / 07, 17: 42, 2 edited once.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79112
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 22/05/06, 16:19

Here is the FAQ 1 is available: https://www.econologie.com/faq-partie-1- ... -2925.html

It concerns the 100% Pantone.
Last edited by Christophe the 29 / 05 / 07, 17: 42, 1 edited once.
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 24/05/06, 16:15

Hello,

Not many people rushing to answer!
hoping that the FAQs are read, this is the first things I look at when I go to a site.

Several questions requests reflections are tried,

There is talk of depression in the reactor, but it will be interesting to know what is the purpose of the depressedion to put under a slight vacuum microdrops, (I doubt because a depression of 100cm water is not terrible) or more just as I think
increase the speed in the reactor, in this case the reactor could operate under pressure, this is what happens sometimes in a small assembly when the bubbling is done in the exhaust, the bubbler inflates when too much exhaust is injected.
Currently I am doing pressurized tests on water doping.
But it is not because we pressurize the entrance of the reactor that we do not have a certain (relative depression) in the reactor, it is a fluid which flows and which is subject to aerodynamic laws.
Because if we adopt the thesis of depression the reactor will walk better and better at high altitude.
The fact that I am doing right now is that it takes a pressure differential between the reactor inlet and the outlet.
But I'm starting the tests it's too early to make any affirmations

Andre
0 x
rpsantina
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 175
Registration: 17/12/04, 16:11
Location: 81 - South Tarn
x 10




by rpsantina » 24/05/06, 16:33

Hello,

concerning steam reforming in petrochemicals,

the first step is to transform the light hydrocarbon synthesis gas by reaction with steam on a nickel catalyst. This transformation is possible at high temperature (840 at 950 ° C) and at moderate pressure (2 at 3Mpa).
The petroliers use this method to manufacture hydrogen but also synthetic fuels ...
Biblio: Engineering Technology Module BE 8565 updated April 2006

I can not find any info on the kinetics of the chemical reaction. But in the combustion chambers, you have to be close to the conditions, no :?:
As for the reactor in doping with water, still no more info.
0 x
RPS (Dpt Tarn South 81)
i-Only those who do nothing are never wrong
ii-Anything is possible as long as a little time is spent there
bolt
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 357
Registration: 01/02/06, 20:44
Location: Pas-de-Calais




by bolt » 24/05/06, 17:07

Hello André

Exactly, if we have to have this or that depression (so that it works) it is also possible that the way it is obtained influences the result, and of course, the result can also be influenced by the way we use the engine:

For example, if we create this depression by means of a venturi, we can have a good depression without reducing too much the amount of intake air compared to before : Arrow:
But then, the engine is virtually less loaded (fuel compared to the amount of air admitted) than if this same depression was created without venturi (since it would have been necessary to restrict the admission of air to the air filter)

So if it is "virtually" less loaded : Arrow: to produce the same heat in the exhaust, it is necessary that the motor must charge more compared to same system but with depression created without venturi

Alors : Arrow: logically if you have a powerful engine on your car maybe it is better to create the vacuum without venturi.
but if you have a weak engine, it will often be solicited under full load, so there is better a venturi not to make him run out of air on the one hand,
and on the other hand, it will always work hotter in its exhaust than a big engine underloaded (to maintain the reactor)

André, what are your experiences, the best range of functional depression ?,
and below what load and over what motor load is it inefficient? (if there is one above)

I also ask the same question for the engine speed, but it's probably related to the load, and probably difficult to answer.

bolt
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 24/05/06, 23:23

Hello
The meaning of my question, is depression necessary?
or does it serve only to increase the velocity in the reactor?
I have two mountings spiking water well differrent on the gasoline engine with a bubbler depression is huge a 15 inches of mercury 100kmh (if 0 inch is the vacuum and 30 inches atmospheric pressure) idling j ' I have 10 inches so it's not possible enough in the reactor that I have to reduce the ducts, (there is probably a limit to having a big depression)
The other assembly and on a diesel with a small carburettor has maximum suction water with a venturi is only 900 mm of water, so low compared to the gasoline engine and yet both system works.

As for the temperature it's another parameter, I think we have to treat things, one after the other
in the meantime it takes a quantifiable functional system then make the modifications, for the heat I will come back there is a big difference of temperature with the gasoline engine and the turbo diesel. (also a big differrence in the design of the engines therefore not too much compared diesel and essence)
But the reactor is only about velocity and temperature
I guess the builders when he tested the reactor they used a pump to shoot in the reactor and an outside heat source. two parameters completely adjustable and controllable ..

Andre
0 x
bolt
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 357
Registration: 01/02/06, 20:44
Location: Pas-de-Calais




by bolt » 25/05/06, 00:46

Andre wrote: the maximum suction with a venturi is only 900 mm of water, so low compared to the gasoline engine and yet both systems work.André


good evening André
You talk here of maximum suction (diesel), and me (and others) I would like to know precisely if the reactor works with this depression of 900 mm of water or it is a value which indicates only the maximum that you reach in fast regime reference, but that when the reactor really works, it can (for example) not be at this regime, because too much depression, too much steam passing and suddenly more heat
But that with 900 mm suction thoroughly, it's just the right depression at mid-speed, where there is a good couple, and that in fact, the reactor would work best between for example 300 and 400 mm d suction water
The main question is to know which depression it is necessary, exit reactor, so that it works
(assuming that there is a functional beach to respect and outside of which it picks)
bolt
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 25/05/06, 01:31

Hello Bolt
On the Mercedes diesel
At 2600 rpm I am at 100kmh that's where I made my test the depression was around 600mm with my old venturi now with the new it is slightly higher.
but I'm running with carburetors, for carburettors to work it takes a good depressing, if I put a small carburetor of 3,2 mm the depression is bigger and that consumes more water more spraying, if I walk with a carburettor of 6 mm the depression goes down and I consume less water there is more air circulating in the reactor, currently I am not able to say that there is a maximum depression to respect, certainly a minimum, around 500mm I have some results, but I am far from convinced that this is the only criterion.
When I exceed the 120kmh the venturi sucks more and the outlet temperature of the reactor decreases
when I drive at 130 at 180 kmh the temperature rises, that means that I generate more heat than the quantity of water sucked by the reactor, this is due to the particular configuration of my reactor which makes a rather important restriction in the exhaust duct (so do not shoot econclusion)
these values ​​I was expecting I designed the reactor to be operational between 90 and 120 kmh, the other schemes do not interest me it is between 100 and 110kmh that everyone rolls here.
When I drive deep in spite of the fact that the depression increases the flow of water too, but the heat also so the exit of the reactor rmonte, but a venturi that does not shoot linear rendering to the extreme it pulls more,
Currently I made an air outlet on the turbo and I blow in the carburetor it seems to work, but it is not because we consume water that we save diesel fuel, my idea it is not to pass before the turbo I am looking for a way that the panton output is done directly in the tubing with a turbo that requires to walk pressure in front of the reactor, either exhaust or with the dynamic pressure of the turbo.
At the exhaust is too boring to see the ERG valve soot ...

the other way is to keep the whole ERG system and its control
but insert in the exhaust circuit the bubbler and the reactor
to make an ERG with the pantone it is cut in slow motion and cold, it operates in the right conditions automatically ..

Andre
0 x
User avatar
Cuicui
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3547
Registration: 26/04/05, 10:14
x 6




by Cuicui » 25/05/06, 10:18

Would it be interesting to find a system that automatically adjusts the amount of steam injected into the reactor as a function of the reactor outlet temperature? If the temperature rises, inject more steam, if the temperature decreases, reduce the steam.
0 x
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79112
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 25/05/06, 13:12

I just received this email:

I just want to share with you my thoughts on the pentone system: do you know that in the 60 years, hydrogen was produced industrially as follows: steam was passed on iron heated to about 750 At this temperature, iron fixes the oxygen and passes only hydrogen. A MAGNETIC oxide deposit of iron follows. This process was abandoned because it required a significant regeneration of iron, which became too expensive. This process is perfectly described in my book of physics chemistry 3ème ...... It seems to me not impossible that a small amount of hydrogen is produced in the Pentone system (without any magic ...) the temperature exhaust gas from an engine located precisely in the right range to dissociate the water vapor, which would explain the magnetization of the famous "rod". A pressure cooker with a piece of pipe and piece of heated iron by the blowtorch moreover perfectly confirmed this fact.

greetings

gilles


And a FAQ question / answer more :) I will answer and react later to your reflections above but in a general way to not that it leaves in all the directions as usual on a forum we focus on 1 issue at a time.

I propose first that we choose 1 point / question of debate and that we answer for a few days to formulate the answer. I add it on the site's FAQ and we talk about it more (unless new hypotheses confirm / invalidate our answer of course)

What do you think ?
0 x

Go back to "Water injection in heat engines: information and explanations"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 130 guests