[Topic Unique] The Pantone FAQ

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Other
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by Other » 05/07/06, 20:32

Hello
To say that above 100c there is not a single drop of water is theoretical. I'm not sure that a drop of water circulating rapidly in an atmosphere higher than 100c is obligatorily vaporize and we do not know what pressure?
(a nipple walks a long distance in the warm air, yet it stays in ice)
What interests us in what you tell us is to make the differrence between injection of (water vapor) and a heated panton!
this is several times that I ask figures even very imprecise on the injection of water, even on a single test in favorable conditions .. I do not measure every time I roll, but when I have a modification I'm doing a test to find out where I'm going. To date I can not get what it gave the water injected without panton (without stem I know it) but there is there a differrence between live tubing?
If yes when driving in fog or rainy days, there must be a measurable differrence?

Send me a message Private if you have resutats because I would be interested this week to do the test before asking the panton,
The suction part in the tubing is installed it only remains to send water vapor and after installing the reactor ...

Andre
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by professeur31 » 05/07/06, 20:44

PITMIX wrote:hi Andrew
The current consumption that increases when the candles are hot is normal.
Moreover, superconductors are at temperatures close to absolute Zero.
Congratulations for your experience :P it's a great job


Oh no sorry pitmix, it's exactly the opposite happens as Christophe says.
A cold candle absorbs 20 amp and a hot 8 amp. : Lol:
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 05/07/06, 21:34

Hello
So a superconductor is not a conventional conductor cools to -273 ° C?
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Other
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by Other » 05/07/06, 22:43

Bonjour.
The fundamental question is not whether the current increases or decreases it is known with a resitance in carbon. With the heat it decreases, we know that in a steel. Graphites are pretty big. It simply means that the tip of the candle is not made with a resitant wire, as I just bought 42 $ specially for this purpose I would not decort it right away to see how it is done ..

The question is that I put a fairly high heat source at the end of the reactor stuck on the stem and ... not much differrent compared to a normal heat 600c, but I still learned something about the residual chamber ..
At the next modification, anyway it's part of a test suite, I know there is a minimum temperature level
for this to work, raising the temperature at this stage improves only very little the panton (I am with a gasoline engine and it's not much hotter than a diesel) I think it's something else that excites the reactor it's a bit like yogurt
it takes him a reaction.

Another remark a diesel that works with a mixture of oil and potato oil the reactor has more effect than only diesel
Another note now I drive 130kmh instead of 100kmh usual for testing and I notice that the consumption does not increase much more 130kmh than 100kmh, while without panton the difference is felt with speed.

Andre
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by Christophe » 05/07/06, 23:38

PITMIX wrote:Hello
So a superconductor is not a conventional conductor cools to -273 ° C?


I'm not sure that all drivers become superconductors at very low T °. In addition, do not leave so low ...

Anyway at -273,15 ° C is not worth having a superconductor because even the electron is "frozen" no?

But in any case it's coherent: the colder it is, the less resistance there is ... so the hotter the more resistance :)
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by zac » 06/07/06, 01:57

Econology wrote:But in any case it's coherent: the colder it is, the less resistance there is ... so the hotter the more resistance :)


Hello

You never plunge into the water, below 0 ° crane fraying, above 100 ° fracture of the skull too (bottom of the pool), so it depends on the material : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
@+

PS: it's also valid for vanilla ice cream : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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laurent.delaon
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by laurent.delaon » 06/07/06, 20:57

Hello,

there are materials that are superconducting at ambient term or say to -50.

But I doubt they are in the candles of cars ...
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by pluesy » 06/07/06, 23:03

André wrote:I just put a GM heat candle a long, 30mm element normal voltage 11,5 volts,
it is located at the reactor end at 10mm from the end of the stem,

the element is powered running engine under 13,8 volts it becomes bright red (to hell if it burns I have something to know!)

(Strange thing these candles when she blushes she consumes more current)

And I wonder about the relevance of mounting the reactor at high temperatures like 800c a 1000c?

Yet Mr Chambrin had also placed hot candles
at the exit of its reactor and it did not have material as powerful as now, to look at the color of the candle the temperature must be close to 1200c supplied with this voltage.


hello andré

after what you wrote I would like to have small additional precisions to understand ...

What fervence of power has your candle?

in a diesel the glow plug preheats a volume of air that does not move (it preheats before running the engine ...) so the temperature rise must be quite easy and fast

on the other hand in a pantone we have air supplemented with water flowing at high speed on the glow plug !!!

in my opinion in these conditions the rise in temperature of the candle and more laborious and I wonder what temperature maxi she arrives in these conditions

you may be able to know it by deducing its ohmic resistance in function and then an abacus can tell you to what temperature corresponds such ohmic resistance ...

Apparently for your candle constant voltage plus it passes current more is hot so for example 12v
if it passes 20A in your candle it makes 300 °
25A makes 600 °
35A makes 1200 °
(These are figures invented from any piece but if you have the real do not hesitate : Cheesy: )

- did you verify that the current drops when you cool the candle (with a conjured air jet for example)?

did you watch the current in your candle while driving to find out what temperature it was?

for info it takes about 100wh to 1 L water to 100 ° but it takes about 1kwh to turn the same liter of water in all steam!

it takes about 100 wh to bring 1m3 of air to 100 °

what I affirm above is a ladle ...
if I say big bullshit correct me my physics classes are far behind me (+ 25Ans) and the memory sometimes plays tricks :?
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by Other » 08/07/06, 05:56

Hello Pluesy

As we move away from the subject FAQ I will be short
The main question was to verify if a temperature increase in the final chamber of the reactor improves the system.
As the result was not conclusive, I am on another modification that looks more promising, so I do not elaborate on the heated candle for a long time.
agree with you that the candle is in a stream of air and depending on the mass of air and vapor that passes on it will never reach the temperature that the candle in an air without movement, but with the little heat add to that of the engine I will have to see a small change, if I felt something, I would move to something bigger (even if you have to take a big battery just for heating it's nothing but a test ).
As I say again this is a rather sketchy test and it should not be taken as a conclusion, but I can not devote a year to elaborate in a way with all the facets so slightly I do not feel a minimum of effect at dépard ...
I had to test to heat a reactor 100% panton, with a blowtorch ..
it's my way of working .. which is based on observation and analysis,

Andre
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by pluesy » 09/07/06, 21:13

hello andré

do you think we are moving away from the Pantone FAQ?

So the question (apparament) was if we artificially heat the pantone in the right place is that there is an improvement in function (to eventually reduce the lack of load of the engine in the city for example) you found that that ca nar improved nothing and you drop for now ...

so in summary
question: if you heat the pantone with 1 candle is it works better ...

answer: it works no better ...

most of the other answers revolved around the resistance of the candle which went down when the temperature increased for me that the resistance goes up or down with the temperature it is not important to take the head on it (to be to one stone three shots: measure the airflow, measure the temperature, and heat the reactor) for me the real question is what is the power that you have injected into the reactor with your candle and what percentage it represents compared to the normal operation of the reactor ...

for a start of answer we can compare the power of your assembly with a tool available in any DIY store the electric heat gun whose characteristics are in general the following:
- power 2000w
- air flow 500L / mn
- outlet air temperature 630 °

for your experience on the pantone
- power of your candle ??? (I think between 100 and 200 w)

- air flow ??? (An 2L engine running at 1000 rpm at full load is approximately 1000 L of air / min if the pantone takes 50% at 500L / min)

- increase of the exit temperature ???

based on the numbers of the heat gun
if we have on the pantone
- candle 200w
- flow 500l / mn

we must have 60 ° of temperature increase

if we have that 100w with the same flow we should have 30 ° of temperature increase

so normally if we have the injected power and the increase of temperature we must be able to calculate the flow ...

I asked you these two figures (power and temperature) to do my small calculations and hunt the unmeasurable directly
escuse me it must be the deformation professional (dépanneur tv) because in troubleshooting tv to find a breakdown we are often obliged to proceed as well (we deduce a measure of other measures) and as the pantone looks seriously undermined unconsciously I process like on a broken tv : Cheesy:

but it is true that sometimes the calculation does not solve anything and that a cold stroke (coolant bomb) or a heat stroke (heat gun, soldering iron) well placed improves or deteriorates the function and allows me to find the defective component on a tv ...

I thank you andré for all your exciting experiences that you share and escuse me again if sometimes I want to shell them I can not anything is stronger than me ... : Oops:

so as not to derive too much from the subject I ask a new question if we put ten candles preheating diesel on a pantone (how engine star aviation : Cheesy: ) what does it do ?

it melts the pantone, it boosts it, it makes him sick ...
if someone has the answer I am all ears ...

otherwise I will test myself as much as I can and I will make you enjoy the answer ...
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