[Topic Unique] The Pantone FAQ

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
denis
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[Topic Unique] The Pantone FAQ




by denis » 19/06/06, 22:29

we have not finished niggling! :?
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Other
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by Other » 20/06/06, 01:50

Hello,

Few questions few problems, I will end up believing that it's easy to make pantons that work.

following questions

When building a reactor,

should the stem be centered in the middle of the reactor?
must the stem fill the whole tube? that is a space
Residual very reduced, before the stem or after the stem.
(as the original panton plan)


Is it preferable to enter and exit the reactor in the axis of the rod or with an 90?

Is it preferable to place centering studs on the stem
or external centerers (SPAD type) or leave the rod free
without any nipple?


The stem must have an aerodynamic shape (entry and exit)
(The tip in front of the stem on the original panton plane is not a mere den for the north-south orientaion!)

How important is the length and the play of the rod on the reactor?

Steel rod, stainless steel, nickel, (so much to put platinum $ ball) instead of rod, nickel mesh ect .. as mysterious as the north-south orientation?

Is a water doping reactor the same size as a 100% panton reactor?

Andre
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bolt
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by bolt » 20/06/06, 14:32

Andre wrote:should the stem be centered in the middle of the reactor?
should the stem fill the whole tube? that is a space
Residual very small, before the stem or after the stem.
(as the original pantone plan)


Hello André
Yes it can fill the whole tube, if the steam is already ideal when entering (Truth of La Palisse)


Andre wrote:Is it better to enter and exit the reactor in the axis of the stem or with an elbow at 90 °?

The important thing is to limit the unnecessary losses of charges (losses of charges which do not cause any beneficial effects)

Andre wrote:Is it better to place centering studs on the stem
or external centerers (SPAD type) or leave the rod free
without any nipple?

Same answer for centerers, for cons I do not think we can leave the stem free, unless a magnetizing effect puts it in the center of a safe way (big doubts on it for now)


Andre wrote:The stem must have an aerodynamic shape (input and output)
(The tip in front of the stem on the original panton plane is not a mere den for the north-south orientaion!)

Aerodynamics mainly reduces the pressure losses, so yes, if it is necessary to generate a good loss of load (friction) in the inter-iron (so aim not to create in useless places)

Andre wrote:How important is the length and the play of the rod on the reactor?

At most it is long, the more the exchange of T ° is important, but for the same available depression, the more it decreases the speed of the steam
At most the inter-fer is wide, the effect is reversed in the previous paragraph

Hence another question: is there a minimum flow rate of steam in the reactor for it to work?
Or does it only work by the final "floor" result (minimum of T °) acquired over the length of the reactor?

And as the second question necessarily depends on the available heat of the ech. :
What is the threshold of T ° ech. below which the reactor is inoperative?
For ex. : T ° ech. at the reactor inlet
My tractor in slow motion: T ° ech. : 95 ° C
at 2200 rpm on flat road with 8 t. in tow: T ° ech. : 320 ° C
at 1800 rpm full load: T ° ech. 680 ° C

Is it illusory to have a positive reactor operation with 320 ° C? (500 ° C for a few tens of seconds: crossing (534 ° C max))

Andre wrote:Steel rod, stainless steel, nickel, (as a put platinum $ ??) ball instead of rod, nickel mesh ect .. as mysterious as the north-south orientation?

If there is only heat exchange that is profitable, no matter the matter

Andre wrote:Is a water doping reactor the same size as a 100% panton reactor?


:?:
bolt
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by Other » 21/06/06, 06:50

Hello

Yes it can fill the whole tube, if the steam is already ideal when entering (truth of La Palisse
)

Not in all cases it takes a small residual chamber at the end of the rod and in front of the stem a short chamber in the heat for the carburettor (zac must know this, it only works with carburetors) and for walking with a room bubbler very reduced. It is not steam that must arrive at the beginning of the stem but droplets invisible and inferior to 100c.



The important thing is to limit the unnecessary losses of charges (losses of charges which do not cause any beneficial effects
)
It is preferable to go straight into the reactor

Same answer for centerers, for cons I do not think we can leave the stem free, unless a magnetizing effect puts it in the center of a safe way (big doubts on it for now)

No centering studs are preferable, or at least not at the end of the spad system rod and preferable to the weld points on the rod, provided that the centering rod is small and far enough away.


Aerodynamics mainly reduces the pressure losses, so yes, if it is necessary to generate a good loss of load (friction) in the inter-iron (so aim not to create in useless places)

the entrance of the stem must have a shaped shape a simple conne a 30 degrees or a ball shape, the end of rod must be cut square

At most it is long, the more the exchange of T ° is important, but for the same available depression, the more it decreases the speed of the steam
At most the inter-fer is wide, the effect is reversed in the previous paragraph


A rod of 40cm will not give more heat than a stem of 15cm, the long stem will stay cold on 20cm
The heat is not generated as in a conventional heat exchanger
it is mainly absorbed at the end of the reactor.
The speed of the steam is necessary on the end of the stem,

Hence another question: is there a minimum flow rate of steam in the reactor for it to work?
Or does it only work by the final "floor" result (minimum of T °) acquired over the length of the reactor
?

I always look to have the speed maximium in the reactor, but with the modifications that I brought this winter
I make reservations and I can not answer that question.
No more than the output temperature of the reactor, I had results with 100c output and also 160c, and sometimes nothing has the same values.


And as the second question necessarily depends on the available heat of the ech. :
What is the threshold of T ° ech. below which the reactor is inoperative?
For ex. : T ° ech. at the reactor inlet
My tractor in slow motion: T ° ech. : 95 ° C
at 2200 rpm on flat road with 8 t. in tow: T ° ech. : 320 ° C
at 1800 rpm full load: T ° ech. 680 ° C

Is it illusory to have a positive reactor operation with 320 ° C? (500 ° C for a few tens of seconds: crossing (534 ° C max))


One thing is about heat is needed for the proper function of the reactor, there is a minimum and I am not sure that a reactor that would work at 1200c would be more functional than one that would work at 800c, the impression that it leaves me that to hang the reactor it needs a certain high temperature, like prolonged acceleration or side, then we can lower the temperature and it works again, but if we stay too long on the basis of temperature and is no longer functional ..
but I do not know exactly the role that this high temperature makes in the reactor (in a radio triode lamp I understand the role of the incandescent filament, but in the panton?) The crackage of the water I am very septic!

Steel rod, stainless steel, nickel, (as a put platinum $ ??) ball instead of rod, nickel mesh ect .. as mysterious as the north-south orientation?
If there is only heat exchange that is profitable, no matter the matter

No the rod has a role that I can define exactly, it does not just plug the hole and make a reduced space against the reactor, as proof
Place a cabonne stem, bad result.
Place a stainless steel tube with both ends butt welded so that it looks like a rod, bad result, little color change of the stem while a full stem turns blue in the 30 minutes of walking.
Place a dozen balls of steel or nickel, only the last ball changes color and a little penultimate.
Makes a rod with 3 telescopic tubes mounted tight so as to make a rod. there is little color or heat that goes in the stem ..
The reactors that walk the stem becomes very hot at its end I do not think it is the heat of the reactor tube that is transmitted to the surface of the stem through the vapor layer, because after the output temperature of the reactor is clearly insufficient to give such a color to the rod, unless there is a significant cooling rod output, (finding on a mounting 100% panton with a rod that comes out the reateur can be touched by hand and it feels cold, despite being a few cm further in the reactor it is blue)
The heat is generated in the mass of the stem, not by thermal conductivity, it is simple to make a reduction on the rod to bring it to 2mm in the center and to examine the color on the center. (warmer than on the surface near the reactor)

All these details that I describe are easily reproducable with a small assembly, on which a simple plug screwed at the extremity of the reactor makes it possible to try any kind of rod.

Andre





[/ Quote]
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 25/06/06, 00:05

Hello
I am in total fog.
I run in the FAQ just for me :D (and a little for others):

-Is there a way to make an efficient reactor for sure?

-Why do Kevin get a good result without restricting exhaust but increasing the volume around the reactor?

-Is it necessary to isolate the reactor?

-Why did not I get a good result with my reactor?

-Why Laurentdelaon gets good results without a reactor?

-Is there a way to measure the consumption of a vehicle reliably without making thousands of kilometers?
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by Other » 05/07/06, 03:17

Hello
No new good news False!

I just put a GM heat candle a long, 30mm element normal voltage 11,5 volts,
it is located at the reactor end at 10mm from the end of the stem,
so in the residual chamber, I install a relay and a control in the car to do tests with heating and without heating, no differrence on the behavior of the engine, only a small rise in the temperature of exit
reactor steam, no extended test on consumption.
the element is powered running engine under 13,8 volts it becomes bright red (to hell if it burns I have something to know!)
which I deduce although this tests is based on 3 outputs and approximate 180km, but no measurable results compared to mounting without heating. (Strange thing these candles when she blushes she consumes more current)
I just removed the candle to go to another test ..
And I wonder about the relevance of mounting the reactor at high temperatures like 800c a 1000c?

Yet Mr Chambrin had also placed hot candles
at the exit of its reactor and it did not have material as powerful as now, to look at the color of the candle the temperature must be close to 1200c supplied with this voltage.

Andre
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 05/07/06, 07:09

hi Andrew
The current consumption that increases when the candles are hot is normal.
Moreover, superconductors are at temperatures close to absolute Zero.
Congratulations for your experience :P it's a great job
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by Christophe » 05/07/06, 09:04

PITMIX wrote:The current consumption that increases when the candles are hot is normal.


It would not be the other way around? : Cheesy:

The resistance increases with the temperature and thus the intensity decreases for a constant power ... and fortunately otherwise any system with resistance or incandescence would have a continually increasing power with the T ° .... (P = R * I² )
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by Other » 05/07/06, 16:20

Hello
you are right both
a metallic element its resitance increases considerably to red.
an element made with carbon its resitance decreases with heat.

Measure the resitance with an ohmetre of an incandescent lamp, tungsten and measure the amperage and the hot polling it is of the order of 10 times more ..

Andre
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laurent.delaon
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by laurent.delaon » 05/07/06, 18:19

Andre wrote:Hello

Yes it can fill the whole tube, if the steam is already ideal when entering (truth of La Palisse
)

Not in all cases it takes a small residual chamber at the end of the rod and in front of the stem a short chamber in the heat for the carburettor (zac must know this, it only works with carburetors) and for walking with a room bubbler very reduced. It is not steam that must arrive at the beginning of the stem but droplets invisible and inferior to 100c.



The important thing is to limit the unnecessary losses of charges (losses of charges which do not cause any beneficial effects
)






At most it is long, the more the exchange of T ° is important, but for the same available depression, the more it decreases the speed of the steam
At most the inter-fer is wide, the effect is reversed in the previous paragraph


not like in a classic exchanger
it is mainly absorbed at the end of the reactor.
The speed of the steam is necessary on the end of the stem,

Hence another question: is there a minimum flow rate of steam in the reactor for it to work?
Or does it only work by the final "floor" result (minimum of T °) acquired over the length of the reactor
?



And as the second question necessarily depends on the available heat of the ech. :
What is the threshold of T ° ech. below which the reactor is inoperative?
For ex. : T ° ech. at the reactor inlet
My tractor in slow motion: T ° ech. : 95 ° C
at 2200 rpm on flat road with 8 t. in tow: T ° ech. : 320 ° C
at 1800 rpm full load: T ° ech. 680 ° C

Is it illusory to have a positive reactor operation with 320 ° C? (500 ° C for a few tens of seconds: crossing (534 ° C max))




[/ Quote]

And if we put no reactor at all?

because if it takes small drops of water c true only below 100 ° C above what is the case in the reactor apparently there can not be any will be in vapor without gout.
Does this contradiction disturb anyone?
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