[Topic Unique] The Pantone FAQ

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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zac
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by zac » 10/06/06, 14:04

PITMIX wrote:It would require a hygrometric sensor outside the car and an internal reactor. They would work by differentiation to regulate the amount of steam introduced into the reactor depending on weather conditions.

It would be better!
but with my low means and my mob fuel I prefer a low and reliable performance that a super performance that does not work! : Lol:
@+
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Other
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by Other » 10/06/06, 16:13

Hello
it's normal that 2000 meters all engines lose performance and it gets worse at 4000 meters
even adjusting the mixture ..
For the panton it is certain that the cold affects him a lot ..

The simple way to get water to the reactor is not to give too much to drink, it is preferable to lose a little yield than to try to make him consume a maximum of water.
If we had this reason with gasoline it's not because
because we walk too rich that the yield increases, there are 2 forks or performances are the best, power or economy
it is not because the water is free that it is necessary to drown the reactor!
We must not think about substituting water for fuel, the low dosage water does nothing to help the engine ...
Those who have made some tests know that it is unrealistic to say that the engine consumes as much water as fuel as the announcement, yes the engine is able to swallow a lot, but with what results?

Andre
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bob_isat
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by bob_isat » 10/06/06, 22:21

pity that we have completely deviated from the FAQs ...
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Other
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by Other » 11/06/06, 04:25

Hello Bob_isat
We have a lot of questions, what we miss is answers, and feedback from experiments.

Problems most current on diesel, reactor doping with water with bubbler or carburettor.

Reactor not hot enough

Engine not loaded enough
Reactor install in an exhaust duct too big
Reactor install too far from the cylinder head
Multiple or oversized reactors for available heat
Lack of insulation on the exhaust duct (turbo diesel auto)

Reactor output not hot enough

No circulation of humid air in the reactor
Lack of vacuum in the reactor outlet duct
Too much water and not enough air with a water carburetor, nozzle too small
Water level too high in the bubbler
High water consumption
Reactor outlet pipe too big
Stem too short
Gap too large
Flooded reactor

Out of the reactor too hot

Lack of circulation in the reactor
Lack of water in the case of the jet water carburetor too small
Boar too hot in boiling
Gap too small
Stem too long
Antechamber before the stem too long

Little bubbling

Water level too high in the bubbler
Not enough depression in the bubbler

Bad bubbling

Inlet duct too small
Hole or groove too close to the air inlet or too big groove
Conduit immersed too small volume and poorly positioned

Drops of water in the reactor inlet

Cold bubbler water
Space above the water level too small
Lack of deflectors or ineffective
Partial condensation in the outlet duct of the bubbler
Bullage too intense, splash.
Bad spraying with a carburetor
Depression too weak, or nozzle too big, jet too big, water too cold
Antechamber before the stem not long enough or not warm enough.


Steam has more than 100c before the stem

Bubbler boiling
With carburetor, water too hot
Antechamber too long, too heated.
Droplets that water a hot spot exhaust
Inlet air of the carburetor too overheated.

Lack of depression

Without venturi
The reactor outlet pipe enters the intake manifold too far from the cylinder head
Poor duct layout in the elbow tubing
Oversized intake manifold

With venturi
Venturi badly conceived
Venturi too big at the collar


Water consumption

To have the best fuel economy, the water consumption is just below (where the engine torque begins to feel) this range is narrow
Exceeding this value the feeling of torque is more marked and consumption increases, this range is wider.

How to control water consumption

With a bubbler make a restriction on the duct outlet of the bubbler / reactor
With a carburetor reduce the nozzle or needle, or increase the nozzle.

When the reactor is well dimensioned and that the venturi well conceived once the reactor has reached its temperature in if one increases the load on the engine the exit temperature of the reactor should increase slightly, ie it must pass more humid air in the reactor propotionally to the consumption of gas oil.

do not forget to add some, because there is a lack of it and to emit your opinions according to your experiences or your knowledge
Some things may seem contradictory
as the output of the reactor not hot enough, no circulation in the reactor and further reactor outlet too hot lack of circulation in the reactor.
What you should know is that letting a little air in the reactor gives a hot exit, but if we add a little moisture it gets even hotter, and it is at this point the small rise in temperature that I take my reference to adjust my ratio ..

Andre
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Cuicui
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by Cuicui » 11/06/06, 08:45

Hello André
In all the conditions that you have just enumerated, and which depend on the way in which the reactor is built and fed, we can still add the characteristics of the air coming from the air filter. As you have already noted, the system works less well if the air is cold, so dry (in winter). How to turn cold, dry air into warm, moist air? It must be heated, of course, as you did, but it may also be humidified. Is it necessary to provide an 2th bubbler to heat and humidify the air entering through the air filter?
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Other
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by Other » 11/06/06, 16:39

Hello

With a carburettor or injection you can change the quantity of water

With a bubbler whatever the air that whirls in the bubbler it will take care of the good humidity if it is already too wet when entering it will evaporate only little water and reverses it if it is dry.

For total intake air this is another thing. At the moment I will not be able to say if it has any influence on the running of the engine

When I slip into a cloud at constant speed, I did not notice any change in the engine speed except for a differrent sound. (reflection of the escapements on the cloud?)

But in the cold winter all the vehicles that I had the consumption is 50% and more following the route on driving city that can double with a motor in order
Not to mention that the vehicle is connected with a heating element 750w all night, so tepee dry at the edge of the house.


On this point the diesel engine differrence is less pronounced


Andre
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Other
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by Other » 19/06/06, 05:58

hi Zac

for the loss of engine power atmospheric explosion following the altitude
At 6000 feet 81,7% of the power at sea level
9000 feet 73,5%
12000 feet 65%
16000 feet 50%

After that there is more road ...

This does not advance the FAQ ...

Andre
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 19/06/06, 06:41

bob_isat wrote:pity that we have completely deviated from the FAQs ...


It's been a few days since I thought exactly the same thing (without daring to say it) but apparently it's common on this forum subject deviations ... :|
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 19/06/06, 06:43

Andre wrote:Problems most current on diesel, reactor doping with water with bubbler or carburettor.

+ following the post ...


This is a constructive post that advances the synthesis of FAQ.

Thank you André for being so dedicated! :)
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 19/06/06, 12:11

Hi everybody
Indeed if it is necessary to respect all the conditions enumerated by André one understands better why it is difficult to have positive results. : Lol:
Thanks for all the details.
It deserves to be printed and taped to the dashboard to make live checks.
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