Pantone and walking Oil

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Other
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Pantone and walking Oil




by Other » 07/06/07, 07:32

Hello

For those who made the consumption measurements, did you notice a differrence on the consomation of oil versus the consumption of the diesel fuel with a doping with the water?
Doping with water on a diesel turbo
At the last tests I have a differrence of 11, 5% of overconsumption of oil compared to diesel, measured precise, on the driving I notice very little differrence with these two fuels just on the top speed.
I walk in 100% oil (not fuel oil mixture)
Ask if it is normal or you have to look for different settings for the amount of steam in the reactor.
it would be interesting to know who walks to 100% oil without panton if they find a similar differrence.
I had already asked the question about forum olomoboile and many say that it is the same consomation oil or diesel, if it is the case, with a doping water the yield would not be so good with oil. Although I have doubts sometimes we notice a small differrence on gasiol or other fuel ..

Andre

Experience panton mounting 125cc, spraying of motor oil with a jet of exhaust gas,
Difficult to control the amount of oil vapor to run the engine, too much spraying, the bubbler became more regulator.

spray-and-oil-pic179.jpg
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zac
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by zac » 07/06/07, 11:12

Hello

Apparently, it takes less oil water than go.
This is what I see on the clio and c25 if you keep the setting go consumption does not decrease.

I do not have a precise number because as I roll in oil I do not know how much I put; but there is a big difference of km by full between with or without pantonne.

@+
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by lio74 » 07/06/07, 18:22

Hello ! : Cheesy:

hummmm interesting this subject !!! :D : Cheesy: :D

anyone has an idea of ​​the best oil / gas ratio?!?
or should it walk 100% oil or 100% gasoil!?!

@+
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by Other » 08/06/07, 02:44

Hello
lio74 wrote:Hello ! : Cheesy:

hummmm interesting this subject !!! :D : Cheesy: :D

anyone has an idea of ​​the best oil / gas ratio?!?
or should it walk 100% oil or 100% gasoil!?!

@+


Ideally if the engine allows it is start diesel, once the hot oil and engine warm, transfer to oil and do not forget before stopping, to purge for diesel start.
the oil / gas ratio varies from one engine to another, especially the pump model, Bosch or Lucas. direct or indirect injection system or commum rail. the old engines indirect injections, pump in line lend themselves well to walk at quite high ratios depending on the temperature. On the forum oloimobile is very well documented ...

Say my question was to know if with a liter of oil and a liter of diesel in a diesel engine we get the same yield, I am convinced that no, unless my measurements is not done well the differrence is 11,5% again I tried only two kinds of oil Peanut and Canola (soy)
I think it's the same thing if you walk to alcohol compared to gasoline, alcohol will also be unfavorable on performance.

we do not talk about the price of fuel, the oil costs nothing you have to bend down to pick it up, but for the purpose of calculation and experimentation it distorts the data.

For Zac the doping with the water works, with 100% oil it is efficient,
but I will not be able to reduce my consumption to 100km as low as with diesel and panton,

On a very specific test the same day same journey same speed .. motorway and a little city ..
this gives 6,9 liters to 100km for diesel
7,8 liters at 100km for peanut oil
I have already made 6,5 liters diesel on long journey ..

Measuring oil is demanding, I have a calibrated jug of 4litres
then finish the full with a measure to measure de1 liter ..
just these two test it takes an afternoon, 75minutes of road
30 minutes of water measurement Oil, and we start again for the diesel.

Andre
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by lio74 » 08/06/07, 23:50

hi André :D

let's say your psot comes at the right time !!! : Cheesy:
I will participate in a rural electrification project in Togo
with a mixed source: micro hydraulic + GE to biodiesel (although I do not like that name ... we'll say agro fuel (diesel + Jatropha oil) + solar pumping & stock for drinking water distribution

Andre wrote:Hello
the old engines indirect injections, pump in line lend themselves well to walk at quite high ratios depending on the temperature. On the forum oloimobile is very well documented ...


ok, thanks for the info ... oliomobile ben, I've already been there once but I have no account ... to see if I have time to surf 2 forum :? (already it's been 2 months that I have not posted anything here : Lol:)

Andre wrote:we do not talk about the price of fuel, the oil costs nothing you have to bend down to pick it up, but for the purpose of calculation and experimentation it distorts the data.


with a pantone precisely, the engine should be more tolerant about the finesse refining of gasol and crude vegetable oil!

Andre wrote:On a very specific test the same day same journey same speed .. motorway and a little city ..
this gives 6,9 liters to 100km for diesel
7,8 liters at 100km for peanut oil
I have already made 6,5 liters diesel on long journey ..


ok for conso, my question is:
Is there an HV / gasol mixture that is even better than gazol alone :?: :?:

I will surely have the opportunity to do conso test week if the monatge is OK ...

Have you, like that in a shady way, an idea of ​​HV / gasol?
ha, yes also, there for the tests what oil would you recommend ??:?:

-> peanut
-> sunflower
-> rapeseed
............. :?:

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE : Cheesy:

@+
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next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!

MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!
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by Other » 09/06/07, 05:08

Hello
with a pantone precisely, the engine should be more tolerant about the finesse refining of gasol and crude vegetable oil!



the oil should be filtered at 5 micron, otherwise it is the auto filter that will take care of it and it should be changed more often if the oil is not too clean.
The panton is doing the same job as on the diesel market and in addition to maintaining the segmentation more prorpe which is a problem at each cold start with the oil, but I have only 13000km done with oil, Zac could you confirm more on time ..


ok for conso, my question is:
Is there an HV / gasol mixture that is even better than gazol alone

I will surely have the opportunity to do conso test week if the monatge is OK ...

Sonny works with ratios of 30% oil in cold period up to -5 in summer 50% oil the only modification is a heat exchanger on ela diesel line just before the gasol filter auto Jetta pump bosch if you want to walk carefully 30% of oil without modfication, mix it beforehand. (Do not make a cap of pure oil at the bottom of the tank, once en route with the important return it mixes, no need to force the pump the first cold turns ..
I start cold always on the diesel, once the engine warm and the LDR so the exchanger, the oil reaches 60c I transfer 100% oil, if the stop is short, I stop on the oil and I leave on the oil, the last stop, I do a full purge with diesel
(one minute in slow motion with the important return all is purged
the 100% oil is advantageous for the big trip, the small DIY of 10km it is not worth to transfer to the oil. This is one of the reasons that to simplify some prefer to walk to 30% and more following the season the engine is the kind of oil.



Have you, like that on the fly, an idea of ​​ration HV / gas ??
ha, yes also, there for the tests which oil would you advise me ??

-> peanut
-> sunflower
-> rapeseed
.............

30% you are not wrong, start less to get used to
the oil most often it's Canola Rapeseed and peanut, sometimes it's mixed
The rapeseed remains more fluid with the cold, the peanut I prefer the summer it fixes rather quickly a + 5 it becomes less liquid.
but if you operate mix with diesel one or the other can differrence.
In my case even if it was thick I push it in a heat exchanger and it crosses the filter around 78c has 82 C
it must be fluid to pass into the 5 micron filter
Sunflower not available here or at least little used ..

Andre
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by lio74 » 10/06/07, 19:57

Hi to you !

it's a bit like the proportions I thought !!!
I heard that old diesel engines (avt 2000) could market with 30% oil without modifications.

the worry is the start ... so you need 2 circuits: one for pure gasol and the other for mixing.

regarding the injection pumps which are favorable to the march to the oil ??? (Decidedly, I'll have to go on a mobile phone ... : Cheesy: )

@+
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"To do something is expensive, to do nothing will cost much more." Koffie Annan

next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!

MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!
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by Other » 11/06/07, 00:52

Hello
lio74 wrote:Hi to you !

it's a bit like the proportions I thought !!!
I heard that old diesel engines (avt 2000) could market with 30% oil without modifications.

the worry is the start ... so you need 2 circuits: one for pure gasol and the other for mixing.

regarding the injection pumps which are favorable to the march to the oil ??? (Decidedly, I'll have to go on a mobile phone ... : Cheesy: )

@+


the bosch pumps are more resistant to oil (the Lucas need d el, hot oil or fluid diluted with diesel) the drive shaft breaks
with 30% no need for two circuits (2 reservoirs is for 100% oil)
30% it starts almost as well as diesel in summer you can even increase the dose is a question of fluidity at the passage of the filter and a little in the pump ..
always keep a fuel filter and tools for the eventual change on the road
One of my fistons starts with a tank almost empty, gasiol and filled with oil full made a great trip then, almost empty tank it is full of diesel, just a few km to purge ..
It has a single coil copper tube heater is soldered to the tin on the radiator duct ...

Andre

For engines comun rail walking oil is more delicate.
I have no experience on these engine with oil ..
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by david29 » 14/06/07, 20:59

Hi all. I have a personal P10. I am 33-35% in the winter and 40.45% in the summer.

The pump is a zexel. It would be a Bosch pump improved by the Japanese. No problem. But I'm looking for the best way to warm up the oil in the winter. I had the opportunity to chat with a guy from catterpilar (dsl for spelling). He told me that he recently installed a GO heater for an 4 * 4 before going to the Nordic countries .... is more than digging.

Otherwise there would be risks to start when the engine is cold. Since the parts are not hot, there is a slight gap in the segments where the oil mixed with Go goes into the oil in the crankcase. After reaching the temperature, the GO evaporates and is reinjected life the breather. But the oil (rapeseed) mixes with the engine oil to create molasses. and from the the engine can break.

Do you confirm Andre ????

Otherwise I found it on a site:
http://heating.danfoss.com/Specificatio ... r=004B2029

but then how to order when one is a particular ????

Thank you and Kenavo
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by lio74 » 15/06/07, 01:01

Andre wrote:the bosch pumps are more resistant to oil (the Lucas need d el, hot oil or fluid diluted with diesel) the drive shaft breaks
with 30% no need for two circuits (2 reservoirs is for 100% oil)
30% it starts almost as well as diesel in summer you can even increase the dose is a question of fluidity at the passage of the filter and a little in the pump ..
....................................
Andre

For engines comun rail walking oil is more delicate.
I have no experience on these engine with oil ..


Hello,

in short because it is late, and tomorrow it is necessary to finish the montages in short : Cheesy:
pump bosch, ok ... that's what I was told Monday ... R21, 50 - 60% oil, cold start this cough 2 min and it leaves without problem ... car in the sun l afternoon ... no worry ...

there we are on an electro band, but no time for conso tests this week, the engine is still open belly ... rod cushion to change + seal of cullasse ... we are waiting for the parts for Monday :? .....

I am eager to test .... mias will have to provide a full week of testing:
-> original assembly
-> assembly of G + doping and pure diesel
-> ... G + doping and pure oil
-> ..... G + and oil / diesel in different ratios like 30, 50, 70

so the results for later ... the photos of the editing for very soon in a new post :D 8)

@ + L; o

ha ... ps: we also work on good old mechanics with little electronics not see at all ... : Lol:
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"To do something is expensive, to do nothing will cost much more." Koffie Annan

next species endangered: Man ... and it will be good for him !!!

MAN IS A VERY DANGEROUS POLLUTION NATURAL!

 


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