"Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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Re: Doc on water doping, auto builders know!




by Christophe » 01/12/17, 13:42

The full film "Water in diesel":

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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by izentrop » 09/05/19, 00:46

Hello,
The link that works


It starts well and the research seems factual.
The bench measurement is relentless! : Mrgreen:
Problem: the author continues to believe it and it ends with an ad. Must satisfy the sponsors. : Wink:

Antoine Gillier shows that a gain is made to old engines not designed to save fuel. It remains to be seen whether an EGR system would not have done better.
A BX, I owned one and it was not fuel efficient like the current models.
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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by Janic » 09/05/19, 08:07

It starts well and the research seems factual.
The bench measurement is relentless!
Problem: the author continues to believe it and it ends with an ad. Must satisfy the sponsors.

Obviously you select the only video that seems to relativize the effectiveness of the system, rather poorly used elsewhere.
But especially not all other videos and testimonials demonstrating the effectiveness of this system (not the one used particularly)
Antoine Gillier shows that a gain is made to old engines not designed to save fuel. It remains to be seen whether an EGR system would not have done better.
Especially do not look further than the tip of your nose Pinocchio. An EGR valve only works under certain conditions, not permanently and therefore only has a one-off role that does not affect the consumption (as it works well!) But in the case of Gillier Pantone systems, no EGR is unable to achieve the same declines as all farmers (for example)
We feel there the real technician who knows his subject perfectly well ... as usual! : Evil:
A BX, I owned one and it was not fuel efficient like the current models.
Obviously, the techniques, improve, they are made for that, but at higher and higher costs that pay dearly to the user. Even the mechanics get lost so much these "evolutions", which are nice when it works well, but are very expensive when it's ok. Adding water systems bring a plus (especially on pollution) as on power as demonstrated by BMW among others.
https://fr.motor1.com/news/95317/bmw-le ... ocratiser/
http://www.auto-innovations.com/site/do ... oneau.html
So ignore one day, ignoramuses always :?
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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by izentrop » 09/05/19, 09:43

If there is no gain made on test bench, it is that except positive self-persuasion, the rare cases where a gain has been found have been on engines or the operating point is not optimized , like the old farmer's engines in biodynamics.

A supply of water on the intake lowers the combustion temperature but consumes energy by evaporation. It can be assumed that heating this water through the exhaust and sending it as steam reduces this loss. : Mrgreen:

For the BMW racing with supercharged engine, the goal was to increase power, which is not the case of the car of Madame Michu https://www.guillaumedarding.fr/present ... 76571.html
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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by gildas » 09/05/19, 10:55

Hello, the EGR valve will become a powerful system to clean up diesel engines: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autopl ... l%3fpage=3 This is a bit like the Gillier Pantone system, exhaust gases taken after the particulate filter contain water vapor ..
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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by Janic » 09/05/19, 13:01

If there is no gain on the test bench, it means that except positive self-persuasion, [*] the rare cases where a gain has been found have been on engines or the operating point is not optimized, as the old engines of the farmer in biodynamics.
you still do not get better! Test benches can only give results on an innovation if, and only if, all the criteria relating thereto are known and respected.
otherwise, it's not about motor having demonstrated differences, but dozens. As for the optimized point, even assuming that it can be in some cases (?), The difference, without modification of this point (so you take all the engine for fools concerning the diesel engines concerned) leaves no doubt about the particular role that this contribution plays and its shape especially.
A supply of water on the intake lowers the combustion temperature but consumes energy by evaporation. It can be assumed that heating this water through the exhaust and sending it as steam reduces this loss. : Mrgreen:
Do not mix everything: on one side a contribution to reduce the temperature on admission as does BMW; on the other hand the system says Gillier Pantone which is on the contrary at high temperature and therefore acting in contrast to BMW and therefore the two methods are contradictory. So it's not about assumptions but facts, verified by many users, although it is DIY, ie without the sophisticated means of a builder.
For the BMW racing with supercharged engine, the goal was to increase power, which is not the case of the car of Madame Michu https://www.guillaumedarding.fr/present ... 76571.html

It is in part exact,!
To increase the power without increasing the risk of rattling, the Bavarian engine has chosen to inject a fine amount of water to the intake. In addition to being a harmless liquid, water in the liquid state absorbs a significant amount of energy to enter the vapor state.

it is a question of lowering the temperature of 25 ° with usually 70 ° after exchanger, which does not allow to pass in the state of vapor.

This allows to significantly lower (up to 25 degrees less) the air temperature on admission. On the other hand, the risk of rattling being limited, the ignition advance can also be optimized for the benefit of power and torque.

Water consumption
Water is mainly injected WHEN THE ENGINE IS OPERATING AT FULL LOAD (driving on circuit).

Unlike the GP system that works, as it is well designed, all the loads and therefore decreases the rattling without changes in engine settings and thus gaining power even at low speeds. This shows that we must not confuse systems with different functions.
So instead of remaining in an obvious superficiality and not to consult the whole subject and concrete evidence obtained, read, inform yourself to good sources, you can finally be taken seriously!

[*] gasoline gauges self-destructive, it's new! It's izentropism! : Cheesy:
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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by thibr » 09/05/19, 13:09

it's like for audio

there is the subjective and the measure : Mrgreen:
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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by Janic » 09/05/19, 18:02

there is the subjective and the measure
there is also the measure and the facts!
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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by gildas » 09/05/19, 18:58

Janic wrote: (...) We must not mix everything: on one side a contribution to reduce the temperature on admission as does BMW; on the other hand the system says Gillier Pantone which is on the contrary at high temperature and thus acting in contrast to BMW and therefore the two methods are contradictory. So it's not a question of assumptions, but facts that have been verified by many users, even though it's DIY (...)


Be careful, the steam is out of the reactor ...
As close to the engine equipped with a GP, it is moist air that must be sucked.

Christophe wrote:That's quite the right word for your behavior ... already you have not understood anything the GP system does not inject water vapor but humidified air!


understanding injection water / patent-Renault-injection-of-water-and-motor-gp-t10733.html
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Re: "Water in Gasoil" documentary on water injection, car manufacturers know!




by Janic » 09/05/19, 19:56

Be careful, the steam is out of the reactor ...
As close to the engine equipped with a GP, it is moist air that must be sucked.
My intervention is not to make a lecture, but to encourage to learn as much as possible (the most complete being Quanthomme) rather than play the flies of the boat.
After each one can really have a complete vision on the question and not the visual of a video which is not exactly the most characteristic.
Christophe wrote:
That's quite the right word for your behavior ... already you have not understood anything the GP system does not inject water vapor but humidified air!
actually Christophe knows very well the question, he even filed a patent on this subject (a little too complex in my opinion, but bringing together the various known parameters at that moment)
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