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Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Other
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Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
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by Other » 09/02/07, 17:55

Hello,
A fogger that takes a constant level too much water it leaves can mist and not enough water it comes out a jet of water, it takes demineralized water the pellet does not stay long with hard water, finally to experiment is good, but serious use is unreliable and there is a way to do otherwise steam for the same result.
In cold period it is risky in case of frost.

Better than that is the complete humidifier with water level control and power level adjustment.
3 method they are generalized in pantoneux
The bubbler
the carburetor
and the steam generator
The line of thought is to make the simplest and the most rapid operation (small course) that is the case for the majority of users

For the oily post I read a little fast I thought he was posting for a panton in the forum hulieux ..

Despite the simplicity of rolling with oil, there are many precautions, especially with mixtures 50% everything is well detailed on the forum oliomobile, but walk in 100% it is even better start on the diesel then oil.
As I said on the other forum the water doping with 100% oil has more advantage than economy, there is the side cleaning and fouling of the engine which is interesting.
(reston on the post the water in an engine)

Andre
Last edited by Other the 09 / 02 / 07, 23: 11, 1 edited once.
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laurent.delaon
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I understand econologic
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Registration: 13/08/05, 17:49




by laurent.delaon » 09/02/07, 19:18

Pastekos wrote:
You can not say that.
In this document it is quite clearly explained.

http://n_aubert.club.fr/nicolasaubert/M2160_2003_CH5.pdf

if I can say it without problem because I realized and found on thousands of km (your document does not open ...)
In summary, you can bring water to the engine in liquid or gaseous form.

exact c
The reaction between the H2O carbon is endothermic, so the reaction needs heat to prime.

yes but in our case it does not mean anything
because in any of the car reactors you will not have that. (temperature too low ...
In the document, it specifies that you must bring 34% more energy in heat form, if you inject water in liquid form rather than in vapor form.

me c more steam
For information, in the doc, they specify that the reaction requires a temperature of 800 ° C.

see note above
This does not mean that if you bring water in liquid form, you will not have any gains, but less than it was in gaseous form.

prove me that in your combustion chamber at 400 ° there is still liquid water ...
However, it is sure that it is easier to make a liquid water injection directly, it is also what I intend to experiment soon on my cox 1600 engine, with a pocket-bike carb, making a water intake above the carburetor of the cox.

well good luck actually it must be "easier" ...
that says I do not have experience in this area; o) ...
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delnoram
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by delnoram » 09/02/07, 22:03

jonule wrote:
for the subject on the foggers, it's on what forum ? an address where to find cells?


For the holidays, we could find at reasonable prices fog lamps, in which we find the nebulizer of Capt_Maloche.

Otherwise we find that too here
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"Thinking should not it be taught in school rather than to make learning by heart the facts that are not all proven?"
"It's not because they are likely to be wrong they are right!" (Coluche)
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PITMIX
Pantone engine Researcher
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Registration: 17/09/05, 10:29
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by PITMIX » 10/02/07, 00:08

Uh just for info : Lol:
Yes I use a jex pad for pots that's stainless steel wool.

If you give it to me, I want to differentiate the principle of the Pantone reactor used in water doping and the water vapor used just with a GV without a reactor.
In my opinion, for the reactor, there is a difference in friction and temperature. There may be an effect of electric charge of the gas. The problem is that it is very difficult to prove these effects and even more to know what their effects are on improving combustion.
I think now everyone agrees that water has a positive effect on combustion, provided it is absorbed by the engine in some form.
Since the reactor requires a precise dosage and quality of water to function properly, why would not it be so without the reactor?
The engine requires a certain quality and quantity of water to work better.
I will add that if it is possible to get the same (or almost) without a reactor, why not try it?
I think that to try first, a simplified system will allow, later, to evolve towards more complex systems, gently and surely in order to be able to control correctly the doping with the water of the engines.
The really interesting thing to do would be to compare the effects between two identical engines. One with a GV without reactor and the other with a reactor in water doping.
Laurent passes your car on the bench Rongntudju !!!
Regarding the switch to oil on Diesel, I do not understand how France can prohibit this practice. It's simply shameful. Germany already distributes oil at the pump why not France?
Money : Evil:
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jean63
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by jean63 » 10/02/07, 00:33

Regarding the switch to oil on Diesel, I do not understand how France can prohibit this practice. It's simply shameful. Germany already distributes oil at the pump why not France?
Money


the TIPP my General !!
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Only when he has brought down the last tree, the last river contaminated, the last fish caught that man will realize that money is not edible (Indian MOHAWK).
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stef5555
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Registration: 15/01/07, 15:20




by stef5555 » 10/02/07, 10:09

:| a report is spent last night on the E85 liter was 75-78 cents so in my opinion he will already lose money ......
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jean63
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by jean63 » 10/02/07, 11:28

stef5555 wrote:: | a report is spent last night on the E85 liter was 75-78 cents so in my opinion it will already lose money ......


Do not forget that a vehicle whose engine is adaoté to run on bioethanol (flex fuel), consumes 20 to 30% more fuel than if it runs on gasoline..

We must keep this in mind.

I roll LPG with an old vehicle (17 years) and I consume liters 10 / 100 or 15 km to 25% more than gasoline, but 0,70 euros / liter + long cushioned vehicle, I will go on like that.

It's been the same for LPG ago 10 or 15 years (or more?). The state chose to tax what little fuel GREEN judged at the time.

Since then it has become plagued while in terms of pollution "on the ground" it is very clean (no particles (diesel), no sulfur, no benzene (gasoline) ... I do not have the complete list, BUT a little more CO2 than diesel)).
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jean63
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by jean63 » 10/02/07, 11:39

PITMIX wrote:Hello
I am referring to Laurentdelaon's editing.
I am also referring to the current assembly of my Golf.
It is actually a steam generator (kettle what : Cheesy: ).
In my case it is simply a reactor whose stem I have removed and whose tube is filled with 1 / 4 or 1 / 2 with stagnant water.
The water evaporates naturally by the heat of the exhaust and the level is kept constant thanks to a constant level tank (a modified central heating trap).
I put some iron wool inside the tube to increase the exchange surface.
It's not really what I'll call a very advanced reactor. It is rather a very simplified reactor.
I must say that the advantage of this system is that once in place it requires absolutely no maintenance and allows not to ask questions about its operation.
No rod, no fluid velocity, no air quantity.
The only thing to do is put water back when there is no more water.
Image

hi PITMIX,

In this system, is it necessary to drill the exhaust pipe and put a hollow tube with inside the iron straw or can this tube be fixed against the exhaust with an insulator fixed all around?
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Only when he has brought down the last tree, the last river contaminated, the last fish caught that man will realize that money is not edible (Indian MOHAWK).
laurent.delaon
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Registration: 13/08/05, 17:49




by laurent.delaon » 10/02/07, 12:18

Hello,
I urge you to put it inside, because outside you will not have sufficient evaporation.
The effect from water (only) the amount evaporated matters.
It is directly related to heat recovered for heating.
Copper heats faster and is insensitive to corrosion (in the case we are interested in water gases). Stainless steel ditto but heats less quickly.
This says a mechanical spraying would have a similar effect I think ormis the finesse of the drops.
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jean63
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by jean63 » 10/02/07, 12:38

Copper heats faster and is immune to corrosion (in the case we are interested in water gas). Stainless steel ditto but heats slower

Do you mean to put a copper pipe inside the exhaust pipe? what diameter? how to weld it to the junction with the steel of the exhaust pipe? (I am not a welder)
This says a mechanical spraying would have a similar effect I think ormis the finesse of the drops.

What do you mean by mechanical spraying?

Goods.
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