Reactor sizing

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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Reactor sizing




by small » 05/10/05, 18:59

Hello everyone,
I have not seen the TV reprotage but I have been a miner for some time at the Pantone reactor, I would have liked to know how to size the reactor according to the engine to be fitted?
in fact i would like to adapt the pantone system on a 2.5 liter diesel.
if you could light my lantern.
Goods.
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by Former Oceano » 05/10/05, 21:41

Information is available in this forum, you just need to spend a little (good) time going through the messages.

This allows you to ask the right questions, to see who the members of the forum and benefit from an exchange of information and experience.

Good reading.
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by pepito0_10 » 06/10/05, 22:47

As a new novice in these experiments, I seek information to conceive the "pantonisation" of a 1.9l turbo diesel engine. I am open to all information and advice ...........
I already have the plans in mind and designed certain elements.

Bubbler while going heated by cooling circuit

Reactor in exhaust tube with a rod of 22 in a tube of 44 int. (maybe oversized?)

the difference is that the gases leaving the reactor are not sucked in by the engine but pushed by a heating ventillo which blows in the bulb, ventillo controlled according to the positioning of the accelerator.

my big problems are congestion problems, and:
I can hardly place the reactor within 60 cm of the turbo outlet (I count isolated the turbo-reactor connection to death ...)
I have a long way to go between bulb and reactor (I am afraid of condensation and sending water in the reactor)

awaiting reactions and advice greetings to all
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by rezut » 07/10/05, 11:16

hello pepito

new on pantone i had guessed you certainly did not read any post nor made a tour on (http://quanthomme.free.fr/pantone.htm) otherwise you will know that the maximum clearance between the rod and the tube is 1.5mm
spend more time searching and then ask questions about what you did not understand and not on the very basis of the process which is described everywhere
you just have to search a bit and you will find

rezut
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by pepito0_10 » 08/10/05, 00:22

So much for me Rezut,
it is a rod of 22 in a tube of 24 (typo)
Do you think it would work better with a rod of 25 in 1 tube of 26 (at my disposal) than you think of the rest of the project?
I've been browsing on different sites for some time now, and I plan to put my studies into practice.
Someone with precise or approximate info on the following data:
minimum reactor inlet temperature (exhaust side)
Minimum or maximum length of the reactor for optimum results
Should we cool or not the reactor outlet gases before entering them into the engine (already seen 2 examples or the diverging opinions ...) in my case of Turbo d engine with water bubbler, should I condemn the interlayer ?
What can I use to thermally insulate exhaust pipes and various pipes?
Hi everyone and thank you
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by Other » 08/10/05, 01:24

Good evening Pêpito

If your engine is of good displacement you can take the big rod, but it is preferable to put the smallest reactor for the size of the engine
it's a bit like the principle of choosing the size of a tungsten when welding with TIG. as an example I have on a 300 td engine 3 liters of displacement
a rod of e19mm in a tube of 21mm logger of 105mm I tried a 150mm before the difference is not noticeable, except for what attracted internal resitriction.
An overly large reactor is difficult to heat especially on a turbo the turbo eats more than 100c depending on the regime.
The exact minimum temperature I can not tell you, but below 400c difficult to hang it must go higher then even if it drops again it stands but at 300 c you lose it. if you want more heat during construction welds a small annular deflector to channel the heat on the nose of the reactor without making too much restriction, but a restriction on the exhaust is necessary to have a temperature acceptable to the 80kmh regime. it is a choice where you put on the economy or you make a racing car to run at full speed, with a diesel we do not
not excited. it is not a Corvette.
The reactor outlet pipe I isolate it with a silicone sheath, but it is optional c, is because I have a roll on hand.
It is preferable not to cool what comes out of the reactor, but if your engine is equipped with an intercooler, as you enter before the turbo you have no choice, it is too complicated to enter after for the minimum of gain that it gives, all that to tell you not to cool it voluntarily.
You isolate at the outlet of the turbo to the reactor, no more, you use rock wool (ceramic) c, is white we find it in electric stoves or for industrial ovens you cover with aluminum sheet or aluminum foil sticky, several layers.
Why want to blow with a ventilator in the bubbler, you risk putting it under pressure, it is more difficult to control and to evaporate water
in pressure. Does a good depression in front of the reactor and lets it draw into the bubbler, the engine will take what it needs depending on the air that the downstream diesel, anyway it is not that which is critical it is the temperature of the reactor, it is not very serious if it does not pass enough water at high speed, doped with water it is not as delicate as a ratio 1 / 14,7 like petrol engines , the tolerance is wider.
If you absolutely want to blow in the bubbler takes a little air from the turbo and blows in the bubbler, but you have to know that you are pushing with air or with exhaust, in the end the reactor must fire
through the rod, the suction is generally stronger than what is pushed into the bubbler.
If you had started with the primary exhaust bubbler assembly, you would have seen that when you open the bubbling exhaust too much, how the engine reacts, it has to go up a lot in revs to give it exhaust, the cans get filled with cloudy mist and it cools even with exhaust.

Look for simplicity, functional it is difficult to think, but easy to do.

Or did you see that you had to cool the reactor gases before entering the engine? (we don't even do that with a traditional carburetor engine, I never liked that we cooled an intake manifold or it circulates a fuel mixture, we only see that at the outlet of a turbo to lower the air temperature and increase the filling, the mass of air to the engine.
Andre
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by pepito0_10 » 09/10/05, 00:30

hi André and thank you.
Blow in the bubbler with the turbo pressure, I thought but at low load = almost zero pressure, I am afraid of average results.
Sucked in the reactor, we would have to find a way to maintain a sufficient intake pressure, I am afraid of suffocating the engine by lack of air when the speed goes up (Although easy to realize with boxes of different dimensions flat on the air filter)
For the insulation I will see, I worry about insulating with rock wool because it would drink the oil from engine leaks and at high temperature I fear a little.
I would try anyway but if you have other solutions I am interested.
For the temperature, I plan to weld fins around the tube to favor the heat exchange, or even at an angle to create a turbulance of exhaust gases. I would also try to follow the pipe guiding the steam from the bubbler to the reactor along the rest of the exhaust in order to raise the temperature to the max before entering the reactor.
I would also cut a cardboard to cover the interlayer so as not to cool the intake
hello everyone and +
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by Other » 09/10/05, 04:49

Hello pepito
For the insulation if you don't want to put it, make a thin double stainless steel pipe around the reactor with a slight clearance between the exhaust pipe, it's a bit like double bottom pans the heat remains contaminated in stainless steel, c 'is how I did it on the Mercedes and in addition I put rock wool and aluminum foil.
For good simple and efficient regulation I repeat it again
makes a venturi in the admission, look at the photos of Michel on his Mercedes. it hardly flanges the engine ...
a carburetor in a car does not flange the engine, or so little it is a necessary evil to have a good depression, and when we speak of clamping c, is only true when the engine is fully exploited, c, is that are we driving hard? sometimes I don't understand you, it's very rare that we drive open at the bottom with our vehicles. It's true that I'm an old man, and I dare not say how I drove at 20, but I comprises

as St-Exupery said:

We have all been children but very few of us remember.

Andre
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by pepito0_10 » 09/10/05, 23:46

thank you for all the information.
I would like to know if someone has already experimented 1 bubbler with something other than water to supply 1 diesel?
I wonder if it is profitable to put GO (or fuel) at the consumer level.
has anyone tried drain oil? I have the possibility of having at will or almost but I am afraid that it will make the tar in the bubbler and especially in the reactor.
in the meantime hi and thanks again to everyone (i will forward my results as soon as possible)
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by Other » 10/10/05, 02:10

Reply to pepito
I tried a mixture of water and alcohol in diesel but I did not exceed the dose of 30% alcohol it takes it well it cooled a little more the inlet of the reactor when I have more daring I will go up the dose
it is to risk feeding a diesel with fuel if you have nothing to prevent it from racing.

To walk a car the day before motor oil is real poison.
it is good to make a show on a small engine in a fair, but I believe that sniffing what even comes out that it has the clean appearance must be bad for health, it makes rats die (written on some container of 'synthetic oil). Yet they have tough skin.

Andre
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