Reactor sizing

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
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Lietseu
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by Lietseu » 06/04/07, 07:07

Go see the articles of the pantone creations on the site whenhuman, there are photos of assembly on a mercedes 220D!
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reactor purchase




by grandpa stone » 08/10/08, 00:15

For Cédar, if it's not intrusive, or did you find the reactor that you bought ready made
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Dudule
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by Dudule » 02/05/13, 00:38

Khartoum wrote: For the bubbler I firmly decided, for lack of space, to mount it under the car with the exhaust pipe going inside and the filling in the passenger compartment. It will be equivalent to an assembly of the type "tractor 22" and all its little brothers ...

I too am in favor of this solution given the results obtained by the tractor 22 and its little brothers. So put a 30cm reactor, a bubbler heated by the exhaust and which sucks the hot exhaust gases.
By car, we are not in high steady state as on a tractor but we should arrive at the same results (75% savings) on the highway with weakly motorized cars. We are only at 20/30% max for all pantonized cars !!!

I think you should be able to automatically fill the bubbler by putting the reserve under the hood.

My question: why don't we see more of the same system as tractor 22 on cars?
Is it only for lack of space?
Goods.
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by Dudule » 02/05/13, 00:51

Angel wrote:IMHO the Restriction is necessary for the proper functioning of the reactor. But it becomes annoying for maximum power or close to maximum, generates pollution, etc.

And if you simply add a RELEASE VALVE IN THE PANTONE SYSTEM.
...
So, in summary: I calculate my reactor for which it hangs in town so the maximum restriction to the exhaust, and not to lose power in the middle and at the top I install a valve.

We must be able to add a system (servo or mechanical) which optimizes the reactor according to the engine speed and thus have good idling performance. This is somewhat what Pepito0_10 recommended (first page of this post) with its fan that regulated the flow.
The engine sucks up what it needs and you can open and close valves to choose which reactor you use according to the engine speed:
* at idle the very small reactor,
* in intermediate mode the big one
* and at high speed the 2 reactors.

Has anyone tried a small 6mm rod type reactor?

Angel wrote:It is useless to overheat the reactor.
: Lol:
In the tractor 22, they take the maximum of heat and it even happens that the water from the bubbler boils.
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by Flytox » 02/05/13, 19:33

Dudule wrote:In the car, we are not in high steady state as on a tractor but we should arrive at the same results (75% savings) on motorways with weakly motorized cars. We are only at 20/30% max for all pantonized cars !!!

Chai not where you come from this totally fanciful figure. Those who have seriously documented their achievement / measures do not display such scores far from it. : Mrgreen:


My question: why don't we see more of the same system as tractor 22 on cars?
Is it only for lack of space?
Goods.


Certainly, most often, the most difficult is to find the place to install the different organs (bubbler, reactor, tank etc ...) in a coherent manner. That is to say in a place that will not compromise the performance of the system by inept lengths or passages of pipes, heights in relation to other unsuitable organs, special low retention points, temperature incompatibility zones, access, projections, it must remain removable / maintainable / fixable etc ... and there, the large pots are disabled : Mrgreen:
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by Flytox » 02/05/13, 19:51

Dudule wrote:
Angel wrote:IMHO the Restriction is necessary for the proper functioning of the reactor. But it becomes annoying for maximum power or close to maximum, generates pollution, etc.

And if you simply add a RELEASE VALVE IN THE PANTONE SYSTEM.
...
So, in summary: I calculate my reactor for which it hangs in town so the maximum restriction to the exhaust, and not to lose power in the middle and at the top I install a valve.

We must be able to add a system (servo or mechanical) which optimizes the reactor according to the engine speed and thus have good idling performance. This is somewhat what Pepito0_10 recommended (first page of this post) with its fan that regulated the flow.
The engine sucks up what it needs and you can open and close valves to choose which reactor you use according to the engine speed:
* at idle the very small reactor,
* in intermediate mode the big one
* and at high speed the 2 reactors.


In principle it sounds good ... but AMHA it is much simpler / easier to try to operate the reactor in the area where it is most often used (cruising at 90 km / h?) And where the engine parameters do not not move too much. Then once mastered the thing (it's already a lot of tests : Mrgreen: ) we can try to optimize the range of use towards slow motion and or higher loads with a large waltz of the motor parameters.

Angel wrote:It is useless to overheat the reactor.
: Lol:
In the tractor 22, they take the maximum of heat and it even happens that the water from the bubbler boils.


What matters is the "quality" of the steam which arrives at the reactor, the way of obtaining it can be very variable.
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
Dudule
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by Dudule » 02/05/13, 23:40

Flytox wrote:
Dudule wrote:In the car, we are not in high steady state as on a tractor but we should arrive at the same results (75% savings) on motorways with weakly motorized cars. We are only at 20/30% max for all pantonized cars !!!

Chai not where you come from this totally fanciful figure. Those who have seriously documented their achievement / measures do not display such scores far from it. : Mrgreen:

The tractor 22 has gone from 20 liters to 5 liters of fuel oil per hour, which makes a 75% reduction in consumption. Ditto for many of his little brothers with the G Pantone
But there is no car, even on high-speed highway that has achieved such a result.
I will try on a 2,1 liter, 64hp traffic without any options and therefore with a lot of space around the engine which is also transverse. I often do 1000km of 4 lanes and I will see what I can have !!!
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by Dudule » 02/05/13, 23:54

Flytox wrote:
Dudule wrote:In the tractor 22, they take the maximum of heat and it even happens that the water from the bubbler boils.

What matters is the "quality" of the steam which arrives at the reactor, the way of obtaining it can be very variable.

On the econokit the water is not even heated, on cars it is often the coolant which heats the "steam" to 70/80 ° C and on the tractor 22 they even boil the water from the bubbler and put the maximum heat in the reactor.
We read a lot of achievements and advice but hard to manage to synthesize them.
What to choose to make an optimal system with good quality steam?
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by Flytox » 03/05/13, 22:34

Dudule wrote:We read a lot of achievements and advice but hard to manage to synthesize them.
What to choose to make an optimal system with good quality steam?


The best system is the one that you can run on your engine. There are many different solutions to achieve a good result (or to miss it completely : Mrgreen: ).
But as we cannot fully recopy an "ideal" assembly because of the problems of size / supplies / different engine ... it is necessary to adapt, try, modify ... 100 times put the loom back on the structure. : Mrgreen:

Clearly you choose a solution that you feel better than another for x reason given by your congestion analysis etc ..., bubbler, GVI, miniature carburetor, etc ... and you adapt it as best as you can on your nag. When you have difficulties, the regulars of the forum will be happy to help you and answer the issues raised or already encountered.

For a Gillier Pantone, what is critical is the vapor you bring to the inlet of the reactor. What is downstream, something more or less "standard", will not make much difference. So you need to be able to easily / "indefinitely" modify your reactor input / power supply since that's where it plays out. :P
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[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

 


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