The hydrogen house

[BaudouinLabrique]

Thanks for your intervention.

As already indicated, there is research in progress: there are also reservoirs "en reinforced composites thanks to a winding of filaments (specific carbon fiber, mainly but other materials are being tested such as basalt fibers "). (Wikipedia).
As I mentioned (research), " studies focus on the shape of tanks with intermetallic compounds in order to optimize the filling rate without penalizing the service life "(University thesis-Franche Comté)

so we can stay at 200 bar which is practical to have not too complicated compressors

Reminder: I would be obliged to equip myself with an impressive battery of (92 !!!) cylinders at 200 bars, but I multiply the risk of leaks all the more (hydrogen is the most volatile gas and which even passes through certain metals!). The storage of 92 cylinders should also be done outside (I doubt very much that I have the authorization to do it inside). Outside it will be difficult to measure possible leaks because of the situation in the open air and therefore significant losses can occur and severely handicap my reserve and all the autarkic balance of the system.

[sicetaitsimple]

Outside it will be difficult to measure possible leaks because of the situation in the open air and therefore significant losses can occur and severely handicap my reserve and all the autarkic balance of the system.

Possible leaks are as likely to occur inside as outside, but inside you might just suddenly lose interest in the autarkic balance of your system ......

[BaudouinLabrique]

I've already explained a few pages before (comparison between my calculations and those of Solenco that proved consistent), but 12 canisters do not produce 485kWh (electricity), but store 485kWh (hydrogen) .
As the advertised yield is 41%, it would produce about 200kWh of electricity.

After check "2 kg of H2 is therefore required (containing 66 kWh) "and therefore 1kg = 33 Kwh

On the other hand, you are mistaken about the yield:
it's'together of the electrolyser / fuel cell process which has an efficiency of 41%:
there are indeed losses during the electricity to hydrogen process
and which combine with those of the hydrogen to electricity process;
There are no figures to estimate the losses specific to one of the processes.
but remember any has a loss of 59%
and not as you claim during the (only) transformation of hydrogen into electricity!

[sicetaitsimple]

I've already explained a few pages before (comparison between my calculations and those of Solenco that proved consistent), but 12 canisters do not produce 485kWh (electricity), but store 485kWh (hydrogen) .
As the advertised yield is 41%, it would produce about 200kWh of electricity.

I do not see anything in the document which invalidates what I have advanced.
I think it should be understood that a bobonne in question can produce 486kWh of electricity via the E / P couple

You do not see anything in the document yet everything is there!

If you look at the slides, the Solenco example gives (for a set at 200bar) 14,5kg of H2.

The PCI of H2 is approximately 33,3KWh / kg.

33,3x14,5 = 483kWh

[BaudouinLabrique]

I've already explained a few pages before (comparison between my calculations and those of Solenco that proved consistent), but 12 canisters do not produce 485kWh (electricity), but store 485kWh (hydrogen) .
As the advertised yield is 41%, it would produce about 200kWh of electricity.

I do not see anything in the document which invalidates what I have advanced.
I think it should be understood that a bobonne in question can produce 486kWh of electricity via the E / P couple

You do not see anything in the document yet everything is there!
If you look at the slides, the Solenco example gives (for a set at 200bar) 14,5kg of H2.
The PCI of H2 is approximately 33,3KWh / kg. 33,3x14,5 = 483kWh

I had modified the message but you posted on the old one:

[After check "2 kg of H2 is therefore required (containing 66 kWh) "and therefore 1kg = 33 kWh

NB Verification from another source (link) which is not Solenco

Reminder: a total or partial withdrawal
On the other hand, you are mistaken about the yield:
it's'together of the electrolyser / fuel cell process which has an efficiency of 41%:
there are indeed losses during the electricity to hydrogen process
and which combine with those of the hydrogen to electricity process;
There are no figures to estimate the losses specific to one of the processes.
but remember any has a loss of 59%
and not as you claim during the (only) transformation of hydrogen into electricity! [/ quote]

[chatelot16]

a large number of bottles allows on the contrary to put a lot of tap so as not to lose everything at once in case of leakage

[BaudouinLabrique]

a large number of bottles allows on the contrary to put a lot of tap so as not to lose everything at once in case of leakage

This is a way of seeing because the more taps there are, the higher the risk of leaks!
Think of all the intermediate fittings and subject to climatic effects ... (expansion etc.)

[sicetaitsimple]

I do not see anything in the document which invalidates what I have advanced.
I think it should be understood that a bobonne in question can produce 486kWh of electricity via the E / P couple

You do not see anything in the document yet everything is there!
If you look at the slides, the Solenco example gives (for a set at 200bar) 14,5kg of H2.
The PCI of H2 is approximately 33,3KWh / kg. 33,3x14,5 = 483kWh

I had modified the message but you posted on the old one:

[After check "2 kg of H2 is therefore required (containing 66 kWh) "and therefore 1kg = 33 kWh

NB Verification from another source (link) which is not Solenco

Reminder: a total or partial withdrawal
On the other hand, you are mistaken about the yield:
it's'together of the electrolyser / fuel cell process which has an efficiency of 41%:
there are indeed losses during the electricity to hydrogen process
and which combine with those of the hydrogen to electricity process;


There are no figures to estimate the losses specific to one of the processes.
but remember any has a loss of 59%
and not as you claim during the (only) transformation of hydrogen into electricity!

[/ Quote]

If you modify your messages we will no longer understand anything!

Finally, do you agree now that these are "hydrogen" kWh that are stored in the bottles? You will have to revise your sizing!

On the yield, it is as clear as quid juice ... Maybe you are right, maybe not. I still read on the publication of the inventor that you linked in your presentation paper, page 11: "the reversible fuel cell uses H2 stored to produce electricity and heat with an efficiency of 95%". It is at least interpretable .... And since nothing is clear, I am a little skeptical ....

95% of total return, I doubt a little to tell you everything.

[BaudouinLabrique]

On the yield, it is as clear as quid juice ... Maybe you are right, maybe not. I still read on the publication of the inventor that you linked in your presentation paper, page 11: "the reversible fuel cell uses H2 stored to produce electricity and heat with an efficiency of 95%". It is at least interpretable .... And since nothing is clear, I am a little skeptical ....
95% of total return, I doubt a little to tell you everything.

95% of total yield taking into account the recovery of residual heat (especially present during the production of electricity (via the fuel cell).
The efficiency of the electrolyzer / battery pair is 41% and in phase with similar production means (40% announced in general)

I was confirmed all this during a recent interview with the management of Ets Giacomini (who will market the Solenco Power Box and who are in the process of installing one at home)

[chatelot16]

I have already handled all kinds of gas, acetylene, oxygen, helium ... leaks are exceptional when we use good equipment!

it's not for nothing that the fittings for gas at 200bar are much more massive than the plumbing fittings

leaks only come when a new assembly is made and an element has a defect: a spraying of soapy water reveals leaks fairly well

the porosity of steel for hydrogen is a legend ... the 200 bar hydrogen bottles do not empty themselves!

sealing with hydrogen or helium is a serious problem for steerable balloons, which cannot be made of thick steel but only of light materials