food choices, omni carni herbivores, VG

Organize and arrange your garden and vegetable garden: ornamental, landscape, wild garden, materials, fruits and vegetables, vegetable garden, natural fertilizers, shelters, pools or natural swimming pool. lifetime plants and crops in your garden.
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by Janic » 02/05/16, 11:34

hello izntrop
Janic wrote: He should have written "he is omnivorous by his culture"

I do not have time to develop, but your arguments in favor of the VG do not convince me.

To convince ? To do what ? Personally whether people are Vg or omni, it does not make me hot or cold insofar as each respects the choices of the others. On the other hand, in a debate, the aim is to provide its arguments, not on behalf of a majority which would prevail over a minority, any for that matter, and not only food, nor pseudo scientific.
'he writes: "IT IS MUCH MORE DANGEROUS FOR YOUR HEALTH TO TAKE OFF DAIRY PRODUCTS THAN CONSUME IT." and despite this supposed danger mankind has been without it for a long, long time.
With what life expectancy?
Similar to today, even better, in that the natural processes were better respected and therefore more robust. But if we take into account brutal mortalities by accident, predation, conflicts, this is not countable in real life expectancy. During the wars, the life expectancies of the combatants are more than reduced obviously, the same during natural disasters from which, currently, we would not escape either.

It is also proven that the consumption of milk provides the calcium necessary to still have sufficiently strong bones at 70, especially for women.

It is not proven, just claimed! Or rather claimed to be the main, if not the only viable source. Once again, all the other mammals which stopped consuming milk after the period of very early childhood, do not display decalcification characteristics whatever their age. Decalcifications are not, to my knowledge, the fact of non consumers of dairy, but organic dysfunctions which can be the lot of anyone and the consumption of too rich food, according to age, does not go in the direction of a better being in term of solidity.
Then, it is necessary to distinguish the publicity made by the professionals of the milk or the bidoche (and the “scientists” remunerated by these lobbies) who must perpetuate their business and the concrete reality, in all its complexity, which will give contradictory results like these studies cited. Studies on the effects of milk, as such (and what milk,), would be really valid only with an exclusive consumption of a product and for a sufficiently long time, several generations, to measure the real effects (as on fast reproducing lab animals); except that we are not mice and we do not have an exclusive diet, which distorts any possible conclusion.
It is therefore necessary to go beyond retorts and figures to see in this concrete world if, overall, it is better or less advantageous to consume this or that product and it sometimes takes decades, generations, to achieve it. Thus scientific research can help to see more clearly, but cannot replace experience.
Now, and this is new, we no longer take into account only health impacts, justified or not, but also, more generally, that of the environmental impact, its viability for a growing WORLD population and its needs, the ethical dimension also where the animal is no longer considered as a piece of furniture, but a sensitive being (this is a very big step in fact) and where excessive exploitation (the economy requires quantities, not quality) cannot last long without posing many problems, including economic repercussions. Ahmed is more qualified than I to speak about it.
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
raymon
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 901
Registration: 03/12/07, 19:21
Location: vaucluse
x 9

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by raymon » 02/05/16, 12:28

Let's try to see what was going on in prehistoric times for man: he ate everything he found, including hunted meat or carrion. On the other hand the consumption of milk in all these forms is felt which suggests that man has survived a long time without milk. Milk exists to feed young mammals and not adults, that said a good sheep cheese from time to time ...
It is also proven that the consumption of milk provides the calcium necessary to still have sufficiently strong bones at 70, especially for women.
this is false as if there was calcium only in milk a random link:
http://www.thierrysouccar.com/sante/inf ... itages-730
The table below compares milk calcium with other sources, not only from the point of view of their content but of the fraction actually absorbed. For example, a glass of milk (240 g) provides 300 mg of calcium, 32% of which is absorbed, or just under 100 mg of net calcium. In comparison, you need to consume less than one serving (0,7) of Chinese cabbage to remove the same amount of calcium, or two and a half glasses of water like Hepar.
0 x
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by Janic » 02/05/16, 12:45

Let's try to see what was going on in prehistoric times for man: he ate everything he found including hunted meat or carrion
be careful, do not globalize. It is possible that locally, depending on the resources available, humans have consumed animals. however, it should not be made a rule. Otherwise, it is as if we took anthropophages as a reference, even though it is very localized to certain cultures.
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by izentrop » 02/05/16, 13:14

raymon wrote:as if there was calcium only in milk a random link:
http://www.thierrysouccar.com/sante/inf ... itages-730
The table below compares milk calcium with other sources, not only from the point of view of their content but of the fraction actually absorbed. For example, a glass of milk (240 g) provides 300 mg of calcium, 32% of which is absorbed, or just under 100 mg of net calcium. In comparison, you need to consume less than one serving (0,7) of Chinese cabbage to remove the same amount of calcium, or two and a half glasses of water like Hepar.
Interesting this table but when asked
I would like to know what sources you used for bioavailability please.
no answer.
I need sourced writings to convince me. : Wink:
0 x
raymon
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 901
Registration: 03/12/07, 19:21
Location: vaucluse
x 9

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by raymon » 02/05/16, 14:31

no answer.
I need sourced writings to convince me. : Wink:
0 x

You seem bad times just look on the bottles of mineral water.
0 x
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by izentrop » 02/05/16, 15:24

Not nice to speak in bad faith : Evil:

I was talking about the table at the bottom of the page http://www.thierrysouccar.com/sante/inf ... nts-anchor

A Canadian site not as partisan shows the same type of table sourced this time, but not with the same conclusions:
Cow's milk calcium has a good bioavailability of around 30 to 35%. It is estimated that only half the calcium requirement would be met if the diet excluded milk or dairy products.

Plant-based foods contain several vitamins and minerals that are important for a balanced diet and can be a source of calcium. However, in general, plant foods contain a considerable amount of inhibitors such as oxalates and phytates. These bind to calcium and form insoluble salt complexes, thereby decreasing the absorption of calcium4. For example, spinach, once cooked, contains 115 mg of calcium per serving (125 ml or ½ cup). However, it is estimated that only 5% of the spinach calcium is absorbed, which represents 6 mg in absolute value.
Studies on fortified beverages, including soy beverages and orange juice, have shown that the fortification agent tends to settle on the bottom of the carton and that even vigorous shaking would not be enough to resuspend calcium salts 5.

https://www.savoirlaitier.ca/nutriments ... ponibilite
0 x
User avatar
Obamot
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 28725
Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
Location: regio genevesis
x 5538

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by Obamot » 02/05/16, 15:29

Another example of bad faith? : Arrowd: (and after watching you well)

izentrop wrote:And what about bioavailability

1) that it is the first time that you use this word after having seen it used by others, here ...! (of which me)
2) that therefore before, you gave opinions based on beliefs without taking them into account (therefore opinions without any value).
3) that it shows that you are basically not there to learn, since with Gogol (>>>) you think you know everything without having to go deeper.
EVEN WORSE! YOU DARE ASK OTHERS TO JUSTIFY WITH AN UNBELIEVABLE BODY ... And what's the point as long as the others do "the groundwork" for you ... You just have to swing a few spades (with obvious bad faith) ) to revive your trollism.
4) that moreover, even if you are answered, your favorite sport is to challenge indiscriminately so as to bounce back on the next provocation.
5) that this is one of your trolling techniques and that for that and the rest it would be better to fire the young more blue who behave so badly in a forum. I don't understand why you're still here.

izentrop wrote:[...] in the absence of valid arguments

- not so much the arguments that interest you when you keep repeating the same (you have nothing else to say or do in life?).
- it was necessary that some demonstrate that you are an impostor and how you practice (see above).

raymon wrote:
no answer.
I need sourced writings to convince me. : Wink:
0 x

You seem in bad faith, just look on the mineral water bottles.

We look forward to seeing you!

It's not just the tune, it's the whole song. Should we do as with his "pedro" alter ego: no longer respond to any of his posts?
Because otherwise, it will never end.
0 x
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by Janic » 02/05/16, 18:37

izentrop
http://www.academie-medecine.fr/publication100036393/

The medical academy is and has always been very conformist. As a reminder during tuberculosis, it was recommended to fortify oneself with meats which caused the opposite effect to that which was expected and finally was abandoned (as a means of health). You have your preferences in terms of references and it is your right, but that does not establish it as an ideal model.

Raymon
It is generally said that meat requires more soil than to produce vegetables, this is not entirely true. In some areas it is possible to "produce" meat but it is impossible to cultivate. This concerns sheep in the mountains, but also in semi-desert areas for camels, goats, reindeer in the tundra ... No connection with the industrial breeding of pigs, or cows where the carbon footprint is catastrophic.

Indeed, certain zones cannot be exploited to produce the plants given to animals for industrial farming or not. What is in question is the cutting down of forests in non-mountainous areas to increase the cultivable areas intended for food for slaughter animals and these cutting downs are carried out in “poor” countries which see this as a way of improve their income. However, these lands have limits and will not be able to supply world demand, which will have to choose between feeding animals for the "rich" at the expense of the less fortunate, or sharing.
For info consult the meat info site.
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
raymon
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 901
Registration: 03/12/07, 19:21
Location: vaucluse
x 9

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by raymon » 02/05/16, 21:52

Indeed, certain zones cannot be exploited to produce the plants given to animals for industrial farming or not. What is in question is the cutting down of forests in non-mountainous areas to increase the cultivable areas intended for food for slaughter animals and these cutting downs are carried out in “poor” countries which see this as a way of improve their income

Fortunately there is the cold fusion and we will soon be able to desalt sea water and water the desert to grow grass ... Pfffff
0 x
izentrop
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 13644
Registration: 17/03/14, 23:42
Location: picardie
x 1502
Contact :

Re: Food Choices, omni carni herbivores, VG




by izentrop » 03/05/16, 21:00

Hello,
I don't know who is in bad faith, not me anyway. I didn't know thierry Souccar and his book on milk.
Some do not know how to explain without insulting, it is a shame.
0 x

Back to "Garden: landscaping, plants, garden, ponds and pools"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 123 guests