Turn the electricity meter upside down by 1

[Willaupuis]

This week I went to see an architect and told him about my plan to install an 3kw wind turbine in my garden, this one tells me:

to put an apparatus which measures the input voltage of the network and that produced by the wind turbine and in case the voltage would be greater than the input voltage to inject the current which would turn the counter in the opposite direction ( I am in Belgium and can not produce to sell electricity to electrabel our electricity supplier)

Is he right?

[Christophe]

Yes it is possible but not necessarily in such a simple way ... already most small wind turbines produce 12 V which will already have to pass in 230V ... then we must see the exact terms of redemption ...

[Other]

Hello

it's not that simple and it's not just a question of voltage, it has to be synchronized with the network,
For illustrating this in a simple way, take the case of an assychronous motor plugging into the vacuum network the motor rotates with some slip some 25 rpm of less than the synchronous speed if mechanically you drive this motor above the speed of sychrone it reinjects in the line and it practically impossible to turn it more than 50 rpm of the synchronous speed,
Maintanant most of the alternators are synchronous with excitement in DC those for the coupling on the network it is not so simple, it is necessary to arrive on the same peak to connect them, it is necessary to provide a system for it disembarks when there is no more driving force, otherwise he will behave like an engine.
When I was military in the Navy there was 3 generators V12 to make current, the coupalge together needed some precaution and good phasing, although currently there is easier, it would be long to describe on the forum..
Before launching you in it check if the counter is designed to overturn, study the generators of the driving power stations, most of its asynchronous generators.
All the usual generators are also engines ..

Andre

[I Citro]

This is done !!!
It seems to me that most wind turbines provide CONTINUOUS power.
The current is converted into alternating current by a converter.
There are specific converters that synchronize on the 50hz frequency provided by EDF and make it possible to reinject the electricity produced surplus on the network. This makes it possible to produce electricity without having to store it.
Normally you have to sign an agreement with EDF which installs an "Input / Output" meter, ie a double meter that measures the electricity you produce AND the electricity you consume. The administrative procedures are quite heavy ...
There are systems where equipment is placed behind the meter and turns it upside down.
These systems are provided with safety and prevent reinjection of current into the network in the event of a mains power failure. For example to avoid that EDF agents who have cut off the current to make repairs are electrocuted by your current reinjected!

This principle works very well with the old counters "wheel Banner" (read "for a few more amps" album Lanturlu Jean Pierre PETIT) but should no longer be valid with the new electronic counters.

[Willaupuis]

thanks for the answers, but for info I am in belgium and in our country always ahead of its time ie 40ans back, electrabel who has more for a long time of its monopoly does not allow the redemption yet electricity production of the small consumer ,,, are there any Belgian electricians who can confirm me (my house has a new meter of two years)?


moreover for now I am hesitating between investing in wind or photovoltaic but if I can "resell" the current, and as storage is expensive I think the wind would be more interesting because there is more wind in the winter season when we need more electricity (compared to the photovoltaic that produces more in summer)
am I wrong?

[I Citro]

You're absolutely right.

In France and according to the regions it varies, sometimes the wind is more interesting, sometimes the solar one.
In the Bordeaux region where I live, solar is interesting but not exceptional. The wind is not very strong nor very constant. However, I consider that a REASONABLE investment in the 2 technologies is the most sensible for an annual production as constant as possible. Indeed the wind often rises at nightfall or when the meteo is very cloudy, ie when the sun is not effective. We can then estimate that the wind is taking over the solar when it fails.

It is therefore necessary to define WHAT are AND WHEN are your electricity needs, (The day? The night? The summer? The winter?) And if you really can not "turn your counter upside down" what are your storage needs?
When connected to the network, there is no need for huge production or storage. 24H or 48H reserve stokée must suffice. You have to be reasonable and limit your investment as much as you can.

Finally investing in the economy is also very profitable for oneself (is for the planet.) The hunt for waste should not be experienced as a constraint but as a responsible approach, so you will not have to spend what you do not have not eaten.
This will limit your investment in solar or wind

For a more global reflection look at the NEGAWATT concept or the European project CEPHEUS low energy house (15KW / m² and per year instead of 150Kw / m² on average for traditional housing). If you want to go further, there is the passive house and even the autonomous house ...

[Willaupuis]

For a more global reflection look at the NEGAWATT concept or the European project CEPHEUS low energy house (15KW / m² and per year instead of 150Kw / m² on average for traditional housing). If you want to go further, there is the passive house and even the autonomous house ...

Yes I have already thought, I have already replaced some rooms or specific local of my home lamps with less consuming LED lamps and the others by low consumption lamps, this summer I will isolate the outer walls to win on Inertia and to gain on heating, I just isolate the roof, the floor was isolate during the restoration work for the chassis I also invented in shutters alu lamella with insulation. I do this work failing to build wood or straw (the land is priceless in my area)

[jonule]

why give EDF electricity? low capitalist job ...
it is enough to reinject it into EDF board!

ditto photovoltaic solar panels: for his own conso! otherwise the conditions of redemption relate to 20 years of investments, on calculations of today ...

Know what you want !

otherwise yes, an asynchronous motor turned by a thermo motor for example (it is necessary to have a RPM FIXED so difficult with a wind turbine, but can be envisaged with huge blade, hydraulic also): it is enough to make it turn 10% + faster than its speed of synchronism (1500, 3000 rpm).

for the output no need to connect to the network: star connection with capacitor calculation ...

but what good is the 220 V when you can do everything in 12V? how are the caravanners alive? a 12> 220 converter is no longer very expensive ... ;-)

[I Citro]

The purpose of the reinjection of the current on the network is:

- to use the network instead of investing in storage equipment (batteries = pollution)

- reduce your bill

- soft supply of renewable energy

- I also suggested to invest only in the surface of panels and the power of wind turbine necessary for its consumption.

- Lastly, the 12V / 220V converters found on the market have a deplorable efficiency (about 50%). It is indeed preferable to connect most of its equipment in 12V. Provided you have compatible hardware (TV, Computer ...) but it becomes complicated for white appliances (fridge, washing machine ...)
The solution lies in the purchase of a converter "Pure Sine" whose yield is above 95%, but it is expensive!

Willaupuis,
Can you tell us what you chose for your exterior insulation?

[jonule]

with a pseudo-sinus you do well too!

in any case, a return of 70% or 90% on NRJ collected free of charge (a wind turbine is easy to manufacture yourself) www.nrjrealiste.fr and much less expensive than a solar panel), stay free!

and that is the advantage of such a system.

As for the batteries, I got them from the scrap dealer with lead, one that is well worth 1500 € new and that I have completely recycled!
yes the batteries are recyclable, just remove the sulfate crystals inside that gene the right charge, I bought this product, EDTA for diamine tetra acetic acid, I show how to thoroughly clean a battery (always www.surrealiste.org), once cleaned we put the acid from before or new (sulfuric acid 32 ° balsam) via an acidic scale, then it is recharged with a PWM, like those sold 75 € on conrad but that we can solder for 20 €.

So here's the problem: believe what you say!

for my part I recovered merlin gerin 300W converters in the dump, just the battery was sucked, not the rest, there are plenty at computer dealers (inverters), such as hard drives for neodymium magnets.

so, will buy new or recycle?

the reinjection of the current is a shame, and it is the public service to ensure NRJ renewable, it is not a mission only citizen ...

as for the invoice, we reinject the output of the 220V on an EDF board, we have circuit breakers, the whole line and so on!

what works in 12V: everything! the computer, the TV; etc ...
for the washing machine, it can be connected to domestic hot water such as the hot water tank: thus we avoid the nuclear resistance of 2500W ...
12V fridges exist in caravanners ...

an oil pantone motor produces hot water (sanitary via heat exchanger or heater) and electricity (12V battery recharge) ...

and you what will you choose?