Thesis on the valorization of biomass

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
Plot
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 10
Registration: 15/06/09, 08:24




by Plot » 02/11/09, 00:46

Hello everybody

first of all I want to apologize for my delay of a few days ... But I intend to catch up : Cheesy:

Thank you all for your participation, it gives me great pleasure to see that the subject is of interest to the world!


Sorry if I wasn't specific enough; It is true that the project which was to be launched and which I am trying to restart concerns the valorization of biomass by gasification. That being said, I listen with great attention to all the other possibilities of valuation (out of curiosity and for my little culture). So don't be offended Christine, your participation is welcome, all the more so as it is true that my title is quite "vast".


@Remundo

Thank you very much for the documents, this is good reading! Do not worry, I agree with you about the Fischer Tropsch process, it is a relatively complicated process and not necessarily profitable. It is not, anyway, my initial objective since I would first like to synthesize clean syngas and it is far from being won : Cheesy:

You say that the gasifiers give rise to a heterogeneous soup and therefore you imply that this is not really a very clean process. I totally agree with you. It is on this point that I would like to intervene since my goal is to make the process as clean as possible with good performance, the two being fully compatible.


@ Châtelot

Each of your interventions has the merit of intriguing me (no pun intended), I'm just sorry to see that you don't answer my previous questions. In fact I believe that we do not share exactly the same objective. Mine is to obtain clean synthesis gas in order to recover it using turbines or gas engines. At the same time (depending on the possibilities and success of the first step), I would like to recover other products. That said, I admit that I still don't understand what you're doing with the tars from the process? Since their presence doesn't seem to bother you, how do you value them?


@ Maximus Leo

Thank you very much for the information. I went to see on the company's website and it seems that it is entirely oriented towards methanation. Do you think leaders would be interested in diversifying? (I ask you the question before contacting them so as not to disturb them unnecessarily).

Once again, thank you all for your participation!
0 x
Plot
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 10
Registration: 15/06/09, 08:24




by Plot » 11/11/09, 12:35

Arf no answer: s

I allow myself to raise : Cheesy:
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 11/11/09, 17:01

the condensable products of wood pyrolysis are dirty like crude oil! they have more value for me than the lean gas from the gasifier: that's why I find it a shame to optimize the gasifier to destroy them

at the exit of the gasifier a first exchanger cools the gas to preheat the intake air as much as possible: first tar condensation, the heating of the intake air is important: the less heat the gasifier loses the more we can add water vapor on intake and have a gas with more hydrogen and less nitrogen

2nd heat exchanger or rather boiler, between gas and water, to make steam to send to the intake: recovery of water and acetic acid: addition of lime to fix the acetic acid in acetate of calcium and avoid corrosion later

3rd exchanger or rather condenser to recover acetone and methanol

at the outlet the gas is unfortunately never clean: there are always micro tar particles which put the engine down: large sawdust filter: the dirty sawdust will then serve as fuel, mixed in small doses with the main fuel: thus tar trapped in sawdust will have a new chance of being used

all these exchangers will be periodically overheated by emptying the output circuit to clean themselves by melting what accumulates there

the lime acetate will be heated to 200 ° in another thing to make acetone: to serve as fuel or for other use
0 x
Leo Maximus
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2183
Registration: 07/11/06, 13:18
x 124




by Leo Maximus » 11/11/09, 18:45

Intrigued wrote:@ Maximus Leo

Thank you very much for the information. I went to see on the company's website and it seems that it is entirely oriented towards methanation. Do you think leaders would be interested in diversifying? (I ask you the question before contacting them so as not to disturb them unnecessarily).


Intrigued wrote:Arf no answer: s

I allow myself to raise : Cheesy:

Hi,

Contact Aurélien Lugardon directly via his email. It is a new company and they may be interested.

Léo
0 x
Plot
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 10
Registration: 15/06/09, 08:24




by Plot » 11/11/09, 19:28

Hi,

Thank you for responding so quickly !

Thank you Chatelot for responding in a more developed way. I understand your point of view much better now.
But isn't this whole process excessively energy-consuming?
Do you have more detailed documentation on the different steps and on the process itself in general? I would love to take a closer look (you have the right to knock me out with the documents you have on hand, I can resist quite well). If this is the case, and if you agree, I will send you my email address by PM. Thank you so much anyway !


Thanks also to you Maximus Leo, I think I will get in touch soon (hoping that the project could interest this company).
:D

I wish you all a very good evening!
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 11/11/09, 23:44

my sources are old books from 1880 to 1920

it is the time when the gasifier and gas engine advantageously replaced the steam engine to run the factories: it is especially the coal gasifier which is described

for wood it was also the time when the alcohol to burn was called spirit of wood: it was obtained by "distillation" of wood (not to make the current chemists scream it is necessary to say pyrolysis of wood): c is still in the old books that I learned what wood can do

but I find absolutely nothing of all this on the net: whoever only counts on the net risks spending his time reinventing what was done 1 century ago ...

on the net there are still some old books at galica.bnf.fr

there is also a fao document which gives exactly all the figures on wood pyrolysis: I will put these references to the next message

pyrolysis and gasifier are very close: wood near the hot point and is pyrolyzed: it therefore releases the same product as if pyrolysis was the goal, except that after pyrolysis there remains charcoal: in the case of gasifier charcoal is destroyed and it only makes gas
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 11/11/09, 23:53

to download from galica.bnf.fr:

Type: printed text, monograph
Author (s): Damour, Emilio. Text author
Title (s): Sources of heat energy [Electronic document] / by MM. Emilio Damour, Jean Carnot, Etienne Rengade
Type of electronic resource: Textual data
Publication: 1995
Physical description: XXVI-501 p. : ill.
Reproduction: Num. BNF of the ed. from Paris ; Liège: Librairie polytechnique, 1912 (Encyclopedia of chemical science applied to industrial arts; 1)
Other author (s): Carnot, Jean (18 ..- 19 ..; engineer). Text author
Rengade, Etienne. Text author
Subject (s): Combustion
Heat of combustion
Electric heating
Notice n °: FRBNF37256839
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 12/11/09, 00:00

0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 12/11/09, 00:23

the link fao.org worked very well before I post the message, since it does not work any more: would there be too many reader of econology which make it saturate?
0 x
Plot
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 10
Registration: 15/06/09, 08:24




by Plot » 12/11/09, 01:35

Thank you very much Chatelot!

It is true that I can not access the address you gave, probably too many econologists as you say (I will try again tomorrow).

I did not know galica.bnf.fr at all, and the documents found on this site are more than very interesting.
I have of course already recovered the one whose references you indicate and I started looking for others. I saw that the gasifiers were approached in an "elementary course of Chemistry".

If you ever find interesting works that have escaped me, do not hesitate to indicate the references here : Cheesy:

In any case, I am like you, I think that a lot of research has already been done and that it is more interesting to try to go ahead rather than redo what has already been done in the past. But for that you must have all the cards in hand and be able to access these two titles that I did not know rejoice at the highest point! Now I will have to take the time to read and research other documents : Cheesy:

Thanks again !
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "hydraulic, wind, geothermal, marine energy, biogas ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : Google [Bot] and 222 guests