Black Series 300 600 and 600S from Prevent

[Ruthenian]

Does anyone know the Cx (aerodynamic coefficient of this machine).
I'm trying to calculate the horizontal force at a given wind (160 km / h) but I'm stuck on two points:
- the coeffcient Cx
- the surface to be taken into account (swept surface or surface of the machine (platform + blades)?

[dedeleco]

Does anyone know the Cx (aerodynamic coefficient of this machine).
I'm trying to calculate the horizontal force at a given wind (160 km / h) but I'm stuck on two points:
- the coeffcient Cx
- the surface to be taken into account (swept surface or surface of the machine (platform + blades)?

At 160km / h the helix is ​​preferably flagged and the Cx is about 1 to 0,5, the Cz also counts by forcing as much, (depending on the shape of the wing wing about 5 (fineness 5, saw the armada of whirlpools at this hurricane speed)

The paddle surface stopped is that of the blades and hubs and take Cx about 1 for more security.

In rapid rotation, it is the surface swept by the blades and the hub.

A simplistic rule 100Kgp / 100Km / h ^ 2 is 160km / h, 1,6 ^ 2 = 256Kgp / m2;

In the end 1999, I had a chimney cap flown by such a whirlwind wind (to Orly measured at 180km / h) weight 20 to 30Kg for 0,1m2 = 30x30cm ^ 2 !!!


So to count 100kilos at the end of the horizontal mast to the pif, is a security (half m2) for blocked blades.

[Ruthenian]

For the start of production at 1.8 m / s, I ask to see!

A+

My last measurements show that the start of 1.8 m / s seems really impossible.
On my 48V machine, the measured voltage at 1.7 m / s is 25 Volts.
So !!!

[dedeleco]

For the start of production at 1.8 m / s, I ask to see!

A+

My last measurements show that the start of 1.8 m / s seems really impossible.
On my 48V machine, the measured voltage at 1.7 m / s is 25 Volts.
So !!!

This corresponds perfectly to what is indicated on the forum German, for black600-12V = Vb:
voltage half Vb / 2 = 48 / 2 = 24V at this wind speed 1,8m / s and in light electrical load, 2,2m / s, with 11Hz = 2,2tours / s (5 ratio in this forum and not the 10 envisioned by looping,) and the double 48V double wind speed 4 to 5m / s
and at 11m / s max of power, 56Hertz = 11tours / s (numerically equal to the wind speed in m / s if TSR = lambda = 5)
Then the induced voltage is from 90 to 110Volts to decrease the voltage lost in the resistance of windings RxI rather fuzzy but between 35 to 50V and a power lost in the windings of 200 to 300W about, which leaves useful 110-40 = 70V .

It is not clear if the 600W should be decreased from these 200W to 300W dissipated in the windings, or not ???
Rglobal is it of 8ohms = 16 times of that for black600-12V given for 0,5 to 0,6Ohms ???

The specs speak of Betz with 600W, which suggests that the energy wind 600W, we must subtract the lost in the coils!
Then there would be only 300W and a little more at best !!
????????????????? scam ?????????????????

See what I analyze on the other forum Black600.
This makes it possible to estimate the actual mppt values.

[Ruthenian]

See what I analyze on the other forum Black600.
This makes it possible to estimate the actual mppt values.

Which one, Windmaster and Black600? when reading your last post, that's exactly what I told myself about this value.

Otherwise we will soon be fixed because the diet all started last night and the wind should increase crescendo.

I'm reading the values ​​right now.

Should we take the average wind or gust? I think the average wind but can you tell us which to take into account.

Example that night I noted:
136 W peak for gust of 33.1 Km / h or mean of 23.9 km / h

Medium wind and gust wind did not occur at the same time
Gust 33.1 kmh-1 for an average of 10 kmh-1
Gust 27 kmh-1 for an average of 23.9 kmh-1

Tonight the machine produced 38 Wh.

[dedeleco]

I had written reflections in:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/comment-pa ... 82-50.html


but overall, the 600 has a basic inconsistency, for its 2m2, Betz provides a max of 1KW 11m / s, which is actually at most possible divided by 2 3 500W 300W:
http://eolienne.f4jr.org/eolienne_etude_theorique

This is the mechanical power given by the wind on the alternator, and it is necessary to subtract the energy lost in the windings, to specify (measure R and I real by DV / DI on fixed speed) that I estimate 200 to 300W and so there is not much left, in fact what is measured by you all as on:
http://blackwindturbine.com/courbe-prod ... ack600.php

with a maxi peak of P = 320W to 11 to 12m / s with brutal braking above 12m / s, a cowherie with reasonable wind from 14m / s to 16m / s and nothing produced !!
and typically 200W real !!

So scam sure this 600W !!!


V wind in blue and power in red
ruthene:

Should we take the average wind or gust? I think the average wind but can you tell us which to take into account.

Example that night I noted:
136 W peak for gust of 33.1 Km / h or mean of 23.9 km / h

Medium wind and gust wind did not occur at the same time
Gust 33.1 kmh-1 for an average of 10 kmh-1
Gust 27 kmh-1 for an average of 23.9 kmh-1

It all depends on the time of equilibrium of the Black with the wind, wind vane and time to reach the stable speed, a few seconds to be specified by measuring, and therefore a long gust of time longer than that, with stable orientation of the wind at 10 ° (and therefore the orientation in wind vane) gives a good result, flying over these few seconds.

This is the case of large eddies due to distant heights more than 500m, if they last a long time.

So to save all the wind turbine, frequency, V, I, and V and wind direction, as a function of time, and also for different resistive loads, this a few times per second, allows to analyze and have the parameters.

[Ruthenian]

.

So to save all the wind turbine, frequency, V, I, and V and wind direction, as a function of time, and also for different resistive loads, this a few times per second, allows to analyze and have the parameters.

You ask a lot. It takes a micro controller with a sacred electronic assembly to measure all that! Where to find it or do you have to design it?

It's the festival tonight at wind level. Alas huge turbulence in the wind all the same, I did not think there would be so much.

Erasing works well, protection with the BR3 also with its 5 minutes off.
This morning I measured 375 W for 50 kmh-1 burst or 41.6 kmh-1 mean wind.

Tonight back, 503 W for ???

The BR3 sets it safe to 75 kmh-1 (estimate).



.

[dedeleco]

Interesting because the 600W are not for 11m / s = 39km / h
375W for 50 / 3,6 = 13,9m / s
which gives 500W to 15,3m / s = 55km / h
if the law of the cube remains true ??

and the 600W to 16,25m / s = 58,5km / h

much higher than the low 11m / s = 36km / h characteristics of the black 600., which according to these values ​​gives 186W to 11m / s, with the cubic law in accordance with the measures on the internet

To have an idea of ​​the frequency f obtained is important to know the lambda or tsr if it is neighbor of 5 or lower with the whirlpool ???
A multimeter with a simple frequency meter is enough !!
Or the voltage decrease in a divider capa simple resistance.

If not to measure, already on the oscilloscope in flight with the eyes, gives an idea in the gusts of wind, like the observed frequency, the V and I, same measured roughly.

There are plenty of voltmeter or digital oscilloscopes on PC at any price, which can suit the very low frequencies, (not those of Vialle Naudin), 10 bits, rather 4 channels, are enough taking care to attenuate the input signals with cheap optical or magnetic dividers or couplers.

The 1 multimode sends econology a USB channel:
https://www.econologie.com/shop/multimet ... p-221.html

otherwise 8 entry:

http://www.lextronic.fr/P1714-module-da ... u3-lv.html
16 channels
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10216?
http://www.lextronic.fr/R120-instrument ... esure.html

and many others ranging from 50 € up to thousands of € !!
See more forums on econology.
What to measure a lot !!!

Be careful to protect the inputs, dividing resistors, varistors, see lextronic, among others.

[Ruthenian]

Ok Dedeleco.

Can you give me the exact physical measures metode that you want me to realize.
I have analog scope two inputs, a multimeter, a weather station with anometer ...

[dedeleco]

Ok Dedeleco.

Can you give me the exact physical measurement method that you want me to achieve.
I have analog scope two inputs, a multimeter, a weather station with anometer ...

With fixed wind velocity V stable, one has 2 curves f frequency of the wind turbine and the voltage U function of Rm resistive load on the alternator after rectifier without the Windmaster.
So we have to study and evaluate f (V, Rm) and U (V, Rm)

measurement of the V wind, then f of the three-phase (1 phase and a neutral) with the multimeter in frequency mode, if possible (if not take the scope on a way)?
Also check the 5 factor between f and the rotational speed in revolutions / sec at very low speed, such as 1 revolution / s.

and already see the relationship between these two, depending on the wind, estimate the time constant to change gusts, for different resistive loads continuously after the rectifier, in fact, on simple 220V ordinary heater with switch of different powers 0,5KW, 1KW 2KW to have different solid resistors at the output of the rectifier, of value Rm = 97 Ohms, 48 Ohms, 24 Ohms and other values ​​with R = 220 ^ 2 / P! (disconnect the fan if there is one, because it asks for 50hertz, and not the continuous one)

Rm is verifiable with the multimeter.

It is not known what the Windmaster does, which adjusts Rm according to U, in an unexplained way, so a fixed resistance Rm of measurement will be clear, for different winds.

If possible, measure at the same time U and I with the scope, with shunt resistor in series for I (the voltage on the known Rm is sufficient for I) and voltage divider with simple resistances, to avoid burning the scope. for example : 1 megaOhm in series with 50KOhm, for the scope, to divide by 20 and with 200V only have 10 volts on the scope.

We will thus know the real mppt points for the different winds, so what is the optimum I as a function of U for P max at this wind which fixes U for P max.

So on fixed resistors (which can be switched quickly if possible) measure V, f, U which gives I = U / Rm


Then with these measurements and recordings, one can do the same with I measured on small R in series, in addition to U, with the Windmaster instead of fixed Rm (or Rm changed by known jumps with contactors, to have the different points of clear wind operation momentarily fixed), comparing, we will know what the Windmaster does, which Rm is chosen by the Windmaster, how fast, and what is the relationship with the UI values ​​entered in the windmaster.

So, we will know what the Windmaster does, if we get the actual P max, for which UI settings put in it.