Questions about solar and wind regulators

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
dirk pitt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2081
Registration: 10/01/08, 14:16
Location: isere
x 68




by dirk pitt » 06/10/09, 13:26

the only problem with these "grid tie" devices is that unlike the US, with us, it is strictly forbidden to inject current into the network if you do not have a specific contract to do so with a certified installation and installed by a pro.

in addition, I think they are calibrated for 110V 60Hz
0 x
Image
Click my signature
User avatar
elephant
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6646
Registration: 28/07/06, 21:25
Location: Charleroi, center of the world ....
x 7




by elephant » 06/10/09, 13:42

Quite dirk pitt, the pillar of this regulation being the automatic stop of the injection if the network comes to be interrupted, so that personnel who work on the network do so in complete safety.
The cleanliness of the injected current (voltage, waveform) is also fundamental, as well as the operation of the differential circuit breaker (s).
0 x
elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
Alain G
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3044
Registration: 03/10/08, 04:24
x 3




by Alain G » 06/10/09, 14:29

elephant wrote:Quite dirk pitt, the pillar of this regulation being the automatic stop of the injection if the network comes to be interrupted, so that personnel who work on the network do so in complete safety.
The cleanliness of the injected current (voltage, waveform) is also fundamental, as well as the operation of the differential circuit breaker (s).


Hello Elephant!

The automatic stop must necessarily be done because it is the sampled frequency which makes the device work, the voltage it must be slightly higher than the network.
:D
0 x
Stepping behind sometimes can strengthen friendship.
Criticism is good if added to some compliments.
Alain
darwenn
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 510
Registration: 16/07/09, 17:43
x 9




by darwenn » 06/10/09, 19:37

Looping, at what price did you get your mppt? you told me but i don't remember. Google only gives solar mppt regulators as a result :x
0 x
User avatar
loop
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 816
Registration: 03/10/07, 06:33
Location: Picardie




by loop » 07/10/09, 12:31

Hello

Response to Darwenn:

An mppt regulator is relatively expensive. Especially for the power that interests us, the 500-1000W range.
I send you in MP the link to the manufacturer in Germany who supplied it to me.

For Dirk, Elephant and Alain:

In the description of the first product:

- Grid-Tied - sell green power directly back to the grid at a premium rate (depends on your location)
- Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) - optimize power output
- Plug and Play Design, simply plug into an outlet (GFI), no hard-wiring
- Stackable (connect in parallel for higher output)
- Island protection: Inverter will shut down during black outs.
- Simple and safe installation
- Reverse polarity protection
- Generates pure Sine Wave
- Constant Power Output
- Low distortion output on all ranges
- Allow different Power factor from loads


It is well written that there is a power cut in the absence of a network.
On the quality of the ripple, it is specified that it is a pure sinusoidal signal, but I do not see how it could be otherwise with a phasing on the wave of the network.
Could an UPS like this really distort the signal?
I remind you that this is a model that connects directly to a socket of the installation of the home whose essential function is to "relieve" consumption at the meter and not to resell the electricity produced (in in this case a second counter is needed)
Even if an agreement is undoubtedly obligatory with ERDF, I do not see what regulatory could prevent the use of this type of device (as long as security is ensured)

A+
0 x
User avatar
elephant
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6646
Registration: 28/07/06, 21:25
Location: Charleroi, center of the world ....
x 7




by elephant » 07/10/09, 15:01

What is important is to be able to produce a certificate of compliance with standard VDE 0126-1-1.
This document is required by the approved body carrying out the approval
As for the panels, they must comply with IEC 61215

Wanting to get rid of these injection certification engages your civil AND criminal liability.

Replace a device in a certified installation by a non-certified one: idem.
0 x
elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
swallowtail
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 77
Registration: 25/01/09, 00:11

MPPT for wind turbine?




by swallowtail » 15/09/12, 17:34

hello everyone and looping,
after finalizing the self-construction of a 24V / 1200W wind turbine with variable pitch and centrifugal regulation with a flyweight, I have a MPPT victron 40A / 24V solar reg that I want to adapt on the wind turbine.

could this regulator work after rectification and filtering (condo) of the current produced by the generator ???

in fact, what is the difference between a solar reg reg and a wind reg (apart from the rectifier / filter part and the load shedding)?

Thank you for your advice
Image
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 15/09/12, 18:46

the mppt works with solar power considering that the sun does not change brightness too quickly and that the solar panel reacts instantly to a change of current: the mppt can therefore seek the current which gives the maximum power

with the wind turbine it's more complicated: if the mppt tries to increase the current, it will instantly increase the power by taking the kinetic energy of the propeller and slowing down: the mppt will believe that it is doing a good case and continue until the wind turbine is stalled

the mppt principle does not work: rather you need an anemometer which measures the wind speed, and a regulation which knows the optimum speed of the wind turbine for each wind speed, or not necessarily the speed but more simply the voltage

without anemometer it is more complicated: the regulator must be very intelligent and know exactly all the characteristics of the wind turbine at all wind speeds

wind speed measurement seems simpler to me
0 x
swallowtail
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 77
Registration: 25/01/09, 00:11

wind mppt regulator




by swallowtail » 24/09/12, 23:01

Hello Chatelot
thank you for the clarification.
however, it would seem that the MPPT concept is applicable to a wind turbine: http://www.schams-solar.de/download/WIN ... 500_EN.pdf
does this regulator not seem to be slaved to a measurement of wind speed?

another question: is there a risk of roasting the generator (permanent magnet) of a wind turbine, if it runs idle (without load)?
opinions are very contradictory on this question
please
swallowtail
0 x
dedeleco
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9211
Registration: 16/01/10, 01:19
x 10

Re: mppt wind regulator




by dedeleco » 24/09/12, 23:57

Swallowtail wrote:Hello Chatelot
thank you for the clarification.
however, it would seem that the MPPT concept is applicable to a wind turbine: http://www.schams-solar.de/download/WIN ... 500_EN.pdf
does this regulator not seem to be slaved to a measurement of wind speed?

another question: is there a risk of roasting the generator (permanent magnet) of a wind turbine, if it runs idle (without load)?
opinions are very contradictory on this question
please
swallowtail


Chatelot summed up very well the traps, almost scams of totally insufficient records of mmpt to wind turbines, which never indicate the methods of regulation with precision in their details, in particular the time constants of the mppt to be able to adapt to those inertial of the 'wind turbine.

This serious defect was noted in real tests of wind turbine on a link presented on econology, which destroys the output.

This is achieved through
controlled adaptation (1x per Second) of wind generator and battery
system.

is totally insufficient information, because as Chatelot16 describes, if the mmpt draws too quickly the maximum of possible electrical power from the wind turbine in appearance ((every second), the wind turbine with its inertia is progressively braked too much, slows down too much, until the mmpt decreases its demand for power, on a wind turbine almost stopped to let it start again then too quickly !!!

The manual must specify in precise details with mathematical methods, that the regulation is very intelligent, measuring for minutes, the characteristics of the wind turbine at different speeds for different winds (double variable parameters which make conventional regulation almost impossible, and it is even necessary to add the turbulence rate of the wind which strongly changes the characteristics of the wind turbine, in addition the mmpt must measure the inertial time constants of the wind turbine, and also the internal resistance of the alternator, which with V and I allows to know roughly the no-load speed and therefore the wind speed, which gives the maximum power that the wind can give).
The regulations without good time constants are horrible, real oscillators, even chaotic.

So there is little chance that it will work well, as long as the manual does not give very detailed information on the internal program of the mmt and what it measures.

No load, no current, but at maximum speed and at maximum voltage, the coils are not grilled (unless the insulation of the wires does not withstand the maximum voltage, in fact unlikely, except in wind giving more than 300 to 1000V)
But rotating too fast, the blades with huge g will break, as often happens !!!
because of the "load resistor" to put if the wind is too strong, even with an unloaded battery, which is not provided for in the manual.
Logically, an additional threshold centrifugal mechanical brake is necessary safety.
It is common sense.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "hydraulic, wind, geothermal, marine energy, biogas ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 157 guests