Produce electricity with water mill

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Other
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by Other » 11/12/06, 22:23

Hello,

first we must place the neutral point, which is a function of the rotation of the generator (this serves to compensate for the armature reaction with the shunt excitation field)
Some machines are more complex to adjust depending on the load because interpolations (if there are any) are incorrectly calculated, but if you have a fairly constant load it is not very difficult, the sparks are not always had to neutral point, but if the brushes jump a little, collector lines that are poorly polished or badly deburred, the between lamme must be cleaned (scraped to the right depth) with a sharp saw blade, it is necessary to remove the burrs after a scraping, It sells a soft stone that is passed on the collector then running a rubber abrasive polishing the collector, but avoid cleaning the collector too often. The black graphite film is an indication of break-in of the brushes and the commutator, the brushes when they are looking at the rubbing surface must be glossy polished.
On some machine not loaded enough, I removed a set of brooms
(too many brushes it does not pass enough current) and it's not good for switching, it also requires some pressure on the broom
too low a pressure wear faster than too much pressure (it may seem illogical but that's it)

16 mm brushes for 20 amperes a single set of 4 should suffice!
This generator is probably built to debit more than that, at that time it was built big.
On the stator there are 4 shunt coils? or 4 big coil + 4 small coils (interpolated)?
Normally it is a shunt machine, you control the voltage by the excitation according to the load and the RPM.
that is to say, the higher the current demand, there is a drop in voltage because of loss by internal resistance of the rotor and we must increase the exitation, even if the RPM decreases.
I forgot to specify that the insulators of the interleaves must be hollowed with a saw blade depth is equal to 0,5 times the width of the insulation is mica at this time and it is harder than copper sparks out sparks and that makes the broom jump, too hollow it clogs up with carbon dust and partially bends two blades (the index is a circular spark that goes around the collector)
If only a broom makes sparks it happens that it is not well positioned on the door brushes must be well at all 90 degrees for a 4 poles. just leave a blade on a broom and make sure the other brooms do the same, Are it vertically placed or angled? the brush holder must be close enough to the collector a few mm, the brooms must slip easily into their box (pass a sandpaper possibly on the broom to give the right game)
Another clue if the generator is stopped for some time and you have to start it (by a current in the exitation) is that there is a problem of two lines that start to race! or a winding section that was hot.

Andre
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patou
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by patou » 12/12/06, 15:47

Andre wrote:Hello,

first we must place the neutral point, which is a function of the rotation of the generator (this serves to compensate for the armature reaction with the shunt excitation field)
Some machines are more complex to adjust depending on the load because interpolations (if there are any) are incorrectly calculated, but if you have a fairly constant load it is not very difficult, the sparks are not always had to neutral point, but if the brushes jump a little, collector lines that are poorly polished or badly deburred, the between lamme must be cleaned (scraped to the right depth) with a sharp saw blade, it is necessary to remove the burrs after a scraping, It sells a soft stone that is passed on the collector then running a rubber abrasive polishing the collector, but avoid cleaning the collector too often. The black graphite film is an indication of break-in of the brushes and the commutator, the brushes when they are looking at the rubbing surface must be glossy polished.
On some machine not loaded enough, I removed a set of brooms
(too many brushes it does not pass enough current) and it's not good for switching, it also requires some pressure on the broom
too low a pressure wear faster than too much pressure (it may seem illogical but that's it)

16 mm brushes for 20 amperes a single set of 4 should suffice!
This generator is probably built to debit more than that, at that time it was built big.
On the stator there are 4 shunt coils? or 4 big coil + 4 small coils (interpolated)?
Normally it is a shunt machine, you control the voltage by the excitation according to the load and the RPM.
that is to say, the higher the current demand, there is a drop in voltage because of loss by internal resistance of the rotor and we must increase the exitation, even if the RPM decreases.
I forgot to specify that the insulators of the interleaves must be hollowed with a saw blade depth is equal to 0,5 times the width of the insulation is mica at this time and it is harder than copper sparks out sparks and that makes the broom jump, too hollow it clogs up with carbon dust and partially bends two blades (the index is a circular spark that goes around the collector)
If only a broom makes sparks it happens that it is not well positioned on the door brushes must be well at all 90 degrees for a 4 poles. just leave a blade on a broom and make sure the other brooms do the same, Are it vertically placed or angled? the brush holder must be close enough to the collector a few mm, the brooms must slip easily into their box (pass a sandpaper possibly on the broom to give the right game)
Another clue if the generator is stopped for some time and you have to start it (by a current in the exitation) is that there is a problem of two lines that start to race! or a winding section that was hot.

Andre

thank you André
ha, yes you're right I may have dug the mica slats too much with a slit saw blade.
my dynamo is very big it is about 60 kg.elle 2 large coils induction series serie directly with the output voltage of the dynamo.grace that it is excited by itself when it starts to turn.elle remains so asser remanent.
the armature is about 15 cm in diameter.
the brushes are on a horizontal line 2 on the postive and 2 on the negative (so I have 2 brushes on the same barette collector).
I must therefore check that these 2 brushes leave the collector barrettes at the same time.
I have only small sparks between the brooms and the collector.

I mark here the references of the plate of the dynamo.
electrical construction Nancy.type: GC4 number 24659.
115volts 3000watts 1660 tr.
I thank you André for all your advice.
I am from the Vosges.
Patout
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Other
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by Other » 12/12/06, 16:45

Hello
2 large induction coils fed in series directly with the output voltage of the dynamo.grace to that it is excited by itself when it starts to rotate.elle it remains so asser remnant.


It becomes clearer it is a machine 2 poles, for the coil
the (field) excitement I think rather that it is connected in parralelle on the brooms, if it is serial is the big wire and only connect to a broom (serial with the rotor)
it was probably an old DC engine (it's the same thing as a generator, it's reversible)
Give me the details if it's serie or shunt?
I would tell you how to control the excitement
what is regular consumption in common use?
If it is less than 30 amperes only one broom per case is preferable. (if there are separators?)

I always have small sparks especially on the positive exit.


If it makes sparkles only to a broom it is not well stalled 180 degrees (a case is poorly mounted! At that time it was all adjustable, is the hand.
Normally on the crown that holds the brushes there is a den mark building stroke or needle punch, this repair is valid for a direction of rotation (since you do not interpolate)

Normally these generatric eleven voltage output and directly related to the RPM if you increase the RPM voltage rises, the limit is the amperage that must not be exceeded depending on the generator is well ventilated, so to get more power ( if there is water) we increase the voltage, which is about what we did at the end of the life of large DC motors in the industry, to increase the power of the engines.

What are you doing with DC besides heating and walking lights
well 110 volts at home inconvenient and in addition it is hard on the thermostat contacts (hot water tank).

Andre
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patou
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by patou » 12/12/06, 17:46

Andre wrote:Hello
2 large induction coils fed in series directly with the output voltage of the dynamo.grace to that it is excited by itself when it starts to rotate.elle it remains so asser remnant.


It becomes clearer it is a machine 2 poles, for the coil
the (field) excitement I think rather that it is connected in parralelle on the brooms, if it is serial is the big wire and only connect to a broom (serial with the rotor)
it was probably an old DC engine (it's the same thing as a generator, it's reversible)
Give me the details if it's serie or shunt?
I would tell you how to control the excitement
what is regular consumption in common use?
If it is less than 30 amperes only one broom per case is preferable. (if there are separators?)

I always have small sparks especially on the positive exit.


If it makes sparkles only to a broom it is not well stalled 180 degrees (a case is poorly mounted! At that time it was all adjustable, is the hand.
Normally on the crown that holds the brushes there is a den mark building stroke or needle punch, this repair is valid for a direction of rotation (since you do not interpolate)

Normally these generatric eleven voltage output and directly related to the RPM if you increase the RPM voltage rises, the limit is the amperage that must not be exceeded depending on the generator is well ventilated, so to get more power ( if there is water) we increase the voltage, which is about what we did at the end of the life of large DC motors in the industry, to increase the power of the engines.

What are you doing with DC besides heating and walking lights
well 110 volts at home inconvenient and in addition it is hard on the thermostat contacts (hot water tank).

Andre

thank you .
I change 2 1000watts radiator to operate in 110 volts is very simple just feed the resistance in the middle and each end negative excercise in the middle and positive of each end. But it is not necessary to it is necessary to consume all the power otherwise in case of cut the dynamo would rise in speed and with the centrifugal force the rotor would risk problems. I am warming myself at the moment with 2 radaiteur of 1000watts it thus provide me 48kw by 24 it heats it heats 100 square meters, it does not get too cold. As the radishers do not cut each other off, a very good continuous heat.
I believe in free energy go to the website totokoma ifrance.com.
thanks.
Patout
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cybermoulin
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Registration: 02/04/07, 16:24




by cybermoulin » 03/04/07, 11:59

hello to ts,

I vs present my project:

I would like to equip my old water monlin, which I am renovating, with a small hydropower plant!

With what I could read and learn about your precious forum , I am doing a synthesis that I would like to submit to you! so that vs can correct me or guide me if necessary!

go away!

I have on the jaur (herault 34) average bitrate jaur 4.080 m3 / s according to the words of the bank hydro!

The water is conveyed to the mill by an 425 stone channel m long belonging to me (which I partly have to renovate) : Lol: 60cm wide and 60 cm high. the channel winds slightly past my house (the foundation walls of the house serve for one side of the channel for about 25 m) which leads me to ask my question 1 x

I would like to bust this part to avoid that the water does not finish to ruin and to dig galleries to the wear of the foundations and does not rise by capillarity of the stone walls my concern is what diameter? so that the day when I finalize my project I do not have the obligation to reopen.

Can my channel be used as is, or should it be used for forced driving? (Gross ascent from 12 to 15 m)

This one flows into a 3m stone reservoir on the deep side of 6m so about 50m3, there are two openings at the base that allows to evacuate the water and was used to project the water on a turbine connected to a mechanism to drive the wheels!

here is the 1er episode!

I'm waiting for your answer thank you!
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Misterloxo
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by Misterloxo » 03/04/07, 18:34

I can not answer your questions but I wanted to tell you that you were lucky to own a mill in these days.

Make good use of it.

P'tet quceed can inform you if it passes on the forum. He has a mill too.

to +
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by Woodcutter » 06/04/07, 00:43

cybermoulin wrote:[...] I dispose of the jaur (herault 34) average jaur 4.080 m3 / s according to the words of the hydro bank!
Warning ! There is a problem of scale, because there are values ​​of Rhone in flood! (unless it's 4, 08 m3 / s?)

Do you have a water right? (which can be transmitted by an inheritance, they are sometimes very old things ...)

For your nozzle diameter, I need to find my flow calculation spreadsheet and I will answer you ...
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by cybermoulin » 06/04/07, 12:29

Hello to ts,

Thank you for your mess misterloxo!

Thank you to you lumberjack for your help!

As for the flow yes, it seemed huge, but not on ... I transcribed as the bank hydro gave it. therefore it must be 4m3 / s for the average nominal flow
(ie the flow of the river).

As for the right of water I found last night, the representation
of my mill on the map of cassini, I think that means that my right of water is unalloyable right?

By cons I can not find the percentage that I can draw legally?

Regarding the power of my installation I ask myself a lot of questions! considering the size of my channel! to determine the power, finally I await your information on the buzzards with impatience!

I have to equip my house in 400v 30a to meet my energetic needs.

Thinking that I can cover my needs with my
installation?

End of the second episode

Thanks to ts a +

ps I sent photos but I did not copy the link to retrieve them! : Lol: so I have them in my gallery prso!


[/ Img]
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Exceed
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by Exceed » 17/04/07, 10:24

Hello

In passing, I stumble upon your message ...
I think I'll read everything to give you some info ...
Already, for your water rights, if it appears on Cassini's map, it is because it dates from before the revolution, so it must be "founded in title". No problem for water rights. The section of your canal at the entrance to the water intake gives you the amount of water you can take, well what was allowed when the mill was in operation.
400V 30A ??? it makes you 12kw ...
With a channel of 0.6 by 0.6m, it must make you a flow of approx. 300L / s in the best case, taking the speed of 1m / s average.
So you should be able to produce your 12Kw rather "easily", or even 15Kw.

Do you want to be autonomous or connected to the network (the easiest)?

If you want to be assisted in your project, I can give you the coordinates of specialists of this style of project that can even move on site to help you ... it's really a guy in this area ...

I will try to see your photos.

A + Serge.
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by cybermoulin » 17/04/07, 17:31

Hello everybody

Slt exceed, thank you for your help!

Yes I am interested in the details of your specialist!

I want to be connected to the network, to use it as a regulator for my installation and sell my surplus.

I think to install an ossberger coupled to an asynchronous gene all electronically controlled to intervene as little as possible during changes in flow.

I'm waiting for your mess exceed!

Bye!
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