MYRTLE Corsica store solar electricity into hydrogen

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
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sen-no-sen
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by sen-no-sen » 12/01/12, 20:34

Projetheus wrote:Still, I also wonder very seriously if this technological showcase does not exist "just to show everyone that it is really very difficult and not profitable to do without fossil fuels and nuclear power". A nice counter example to 21 million €. Who says better ?


There is certainly that!
Otherwise I do not see why a vortex lathe demonstrator would not have been built for the same price, but hey, no problem, we will buy them in Chinese in a few years ... :x
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by dedeleco » 12/01/12, 20:41

Read the report indicated in my references that Obamot does not read:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... Q2mzB0.pdf

For a big project, to take no risk, they chose proven solutions well developed, commercial, therefore not the land, which is completely despised, never carried out, without financial interest, because free and perpetual.

So big solid cylinders under high pressures, real bombs ready to explode, if the metal tires hot, so to monitor and maintain constantly, with a finite life, an industrial rent.

In any case, you must progressively realize, like any new project, intelligent and simple copies of www.dlsc.ca , enormous potential already, to heat solar gratis of summer for the winter and perpetual without CO2, neither nuclear nor dangers, then to realize it at higher temperature and larger volume, also gradually, obviously.
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by Obamot » 12/01/12, 21:06

I prefer the literature of my peers than yours:
http://library.epfl.ch/
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by dedeleco » 13/01/12, 02:22

Obamot wrote:I prefer the literature of my peers than yours:
http://library.epfl.ch/


big problem :
theses (on the internet) and works are very badly classified, nothing by theme, and therefore impossible to find the work at EPFL.ch on this subject which I consider very underestimated, thermal storage in soils !!

So it is much better to take literature from all over the world accessible on the internet, , which is not mine, because I have no access to EPFL books !!
And only for theses in drawing lots in the alphabet in this salad !!!

So it is better to read the vulcanologists on volcanoes, which store heat spontaneously.

Otherwise, the EPFL is not very transparent like many French universities and therefore it is easier to look elsewhere in the world.
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by Obamot » 13/01/12, 11:06

aaah, but you don't know yet NEBIS ...>, which is just made for crocs _... uh .. people like you ... : Lol:

With 4.2 million titles, you should find ... : Mrgreen:
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by dedeleco » 13/01/12, 17:12

Obamot wrote:aaah, but you don't know yet NEBIS ...>, which is just made for crocs _... uh .. people like you ... : Lol:

With 4.2 million titles, you should find ... : Mrgreen:


I do not know, but useless since it gives
not available

for:
http://recherche.nebis.ch/nebis/action/ ... &vid=NEBIS
Thermische Nutzung des Bodens: Beispiele und Berechnungs-Methode: achievements and calculation tools: Förderungsprogramme Promostock "Saisonale Kälte / Wärme Speicherung" = Promostock Promotion Program "Seasonal Storage of Heat and Cold": proceedings of the seminar, Zürich, 1 December 1993 = Thermal use of the basement
Jean-Christophe Hadorn Förderungsprogramme Promostock "Saisonale Kälte / Wärme Speicherung" (Schweiz) Aktionsprogramm Energie 2000 (Schweiz) Program Energie 2000 (Switzerland) Program Energie 2000 (Switzerland) Seminar "Thermal Use of the Subsoil: Achievements and Calculation Tools" ( 1993; Zürich)
1993

not available



At best we have
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and you have to be part of the biblio like Obamot, showing your white leg !!

Fed up !!

Knowing all the special tricks for each country in the world (hundreds) is impossible, and google is much better, but it doesn't seem to be connected with google, probably for silly copyright reasons, as do the French too !!


Finally why Obamot does not put these beautiful accessible EPFL theses on econology ????
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by Obamot » 13/01/12, 20:51

It works, I opened a new account for a friend last week. If you want I can try for you. I do it willingly.

The reason I don't post more is simple. I'm only talking about what I know, and just being careful about the rest. Then learning is something individual (motivation, own pedagogy, responsibility etc ...), so I don't see the point. That is why you are completely right on the merits, about accessibility to knowledge. So I recognize that sites like Wikipedia are excellent for popularization (but we have to dig a little deeper), although on occasion - the disinformation of certain spheres of influence harmful - they also convey information: false, and / or incomplete and / or biased. We must therefore always be vigilant (but the same goes for certain works from national libraries ... So everything is to be taken with tweezers if we want to stay sharp ...)
So when I don't know, I refrain from giving an opinion, except the forum "Philosophy" or these are only idioms and / or hypotheses (reason why I do not participate in certain sons, or so I politely ask that I be explained : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: )

PS: for pedagogy, it seems to me not necessary to make scientific proselytism. These are very difficult branches, so there is no need to discourage those who want to be interested (they will eventually get there soon enough by themselves :? however, encouragement is never too much ...)
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by moinsdewatt » 14/01/12, 13:42

sen-no-sen wrote:Given the sunshine in Corsica, I wonder if concentrated solar power would not have been better indicated?
The project costs 21 million euros all the same!We must all the same welcome the initiative in the hope that it will not be a simple window without future.


Yes, it is indeed € 21 million that I read on Enerzine.

It is an absolutely number huge. All this to get 560 KWp out of solar PV, and return to peak 200 KW with a fuel cell.

To be competitive, you would have to get it all out at 2 or 3 million €.
So we will have to transform this applied R&D trials at industrial level. Not easy, and not immediately.
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by Former Oceano » 14/01/12, 15:01

Why keep it simple when you can make it expensive and complicated?

The assessment is simple:

Sun + water + material = clean inexhaustible fuel: Hydrogen and its derivatives

Those who have the book "solar energy" by Jean-Luc Perrier from 1981 (3rd Ed) will have recognized the phrase on the cover.

At the level of electrolysis it indicates that that of water vapor is close to 90%. The steam produced drives a turbine which drives an alternator which produces the electricity necessary for electrolysis.
For this no need for an expensive fuel cell, we remain on simpler technology.
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by dedeleco » 14/01/12, 16:41

The yield of photovoltaic -> hydrogen, or other fuel roughly equal to that of free spontaneous natural vegetation, stored spontaneously for free too, just to be picked up, but cheaper, !!!!

Making oil or gas with algae, wood, brush-cutting plants, inexpensive over km2, in the sun, and gasifier, is certainly more efficient and simple !!!! (exists functional with lots of wood abandoned or thrown everywhere to rot).


Thus, we demonstrate that renewable is not profitable, goal of this kind of project, in favor of nuclear.

To store, it is better to have plants or algae, simple over km2, or otherwise, store intense concentrated solar heat in Corsica underground (mirrors much cheaper than photovoltaics with better efficiency), it is free, for then converting it according to needs with good efficiency (because only one conversion) in the useful form, electricity to battery or gas.
This storage is a generalization at a higher temperature of what walk to www.dlsc.ca to heat with summer solar heat for winter, with better efficiency than the systems presented in the previous posts, because without useless conversions in different forms of energies, each one with bad yields which multiply !!

It's amazing how you can spend lots of money on projects with low returns, compared to the simplest with the best return, cheaper !!!
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