Small heat pump water-water solar buffer falls?

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Christophe
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by Christophe » 26/08/09, 21:41

A) Mmmm ... I don't see pkoi it would be hard to evaporate, quite the contrary! The hotter the more it evaporates, right?

That he has difficulty in condensing on the "hot" part I would understand better ...

Otherwise yes for the cooling of the compressor ... but the dimplex goes up to 25 ° C ... so 30 ° C is "not far" ...

In short would require the advice of a manufacturer ... see B)

B) I called Elco at the beginning of AM (2 different interlocutors) and I am no more advanced: I briefly explained my problem and they did not know how to answer me directly zon said they would call me back but RAS moment ... if I don't remember it's because they don't have the answer : Cheesy:
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by MAMO » 26/08/09, 22:50

Christophe wrote:A) Mmmm ... I don't see pkoi it would be hard to evaporate, quite the contrary! The hotter the more it evaporates, right?

That he has difficulty in condensing on the "hot" part I would understand better ...

Otherwise yes for the cooling of the compressor ... but the dimplex goes up to 25 ° C ... so 30 ° C is "not far" ...

In short would require the advice of a manufacturer ... see B)

B) I called Elco at the beginning of AM (2 different interlocutors) and I am no more advanced: I briefly explained my problem and they did not know how to answer me directly zon said they would call me back but RAS moment ... if I don't remember it's because they don't have the answer : Cheesy:


Hello!

It's just a story of pressure 8)

If the temperature at the evaporator is too high, the pressure will be too!

It's like water 8) , the more the pressure increases the more late the evaporation ...

@ + Nicolas.
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by Christophe » 28/08/09, 12:07

Ah, I already agree more: that there is too much pressure is fine with me but it will still be evaporated (too hot on the cold side = slight gas overpressure therefore but that does not necessarily mean that it will recondens in the evaporator, because it takes overpressure to recondens!) ... so indeed if it "pushes too much gas side" there is a chance that we can no longer condense on the condenser side and that we either deteriorate the compressor or qu 'we degrade performance ...

But in general, the performance curves tend to give the opposite effect: the COP is the best when the "cold" source is hotter. With the dimplex ca exceeds the COP 7 at 25 ° C on the cold side ...

Is there a rupture from a certain precise temperature? Certainly but I think that 30 to 35 ° are "acceptable" by a heat pump which takes 25 ° ...

In all cases: you must have the opinion of a specialist from the manufacturer to be sure that it is "tolerable" ...
Elco doesn't call me back ... so I think they're drying up on the question! Hihihih!
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by MAMO » 28/08/09, 16:19

Hello !

At the condenser outlet if the exchange is with a cooler source, no problem so no high pressure cut (55 ° for the 410 a, 407c, we can hope 65 ° with the 134a with the compressor running well : Cheesy:
But on the side of the 25 ° evapo (that's the max) already at this T ° we must get cops from 5 to 6 ...

Can machine do little better! Thermodynamics has its limits ...

The solution for you may be to mitigate with a 3-way valve
the outlet of the balloon to the exchanger :?:

@ + Nicolas.
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by Christophe » 28/08/09, 20:30

MAMO wrote:At the condenser outlet if the exchange is with a cooler source, no problem so no high pressure cut (55 ° for the 410 a, 407c, we can hope 65 ° with the 134a with the compressor running well : Cheesy:


Hugh!

Colder than what? It will be for DHW, so between 45 and 60 ° C ...

MAMO wrote:But on the side of the 25 ° evapo (that's the max) already at this T ° we must get cops from 5 to 6 ...


7.5 on one dimplex according to this doc...

But it is not the highest COP that I am looking for ... it is a possible rise between 25 and 35 ° C ...


MAMO wrote:The solution for you may be to mitigate with a 3-way valve the outlet of the balloon to the exchanger :?:


Mmm yes that would be a solution ... but hey long live the gas plant to win a few joules ... :|
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by MAMO » 28/08/09, 23:28

Hello !

I made myself a little "tinkering" also for hs ...

RIGHT HERE: http://www.chaleurterre.com/forum/viewsujet.php?t=8321

It works and it does not cost much : Wink:

@+
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by rirto » 09/08/15, 19:13

Then I will surprise you maybe but none of the solutions is the right one ... By replacing only the boiler you just move the problem .....

The only thing that is to do for the moment is to increase your insulation !!!!! The 20000 euros that you want to put in a heat pump puts them in the improvement of the insulation of your building.

In addition replacing a boiler with a cap (air / water) is not great. These pac on operating limits (very cold) at the time when you need the most heating.

The only universal answer: The best heating is the one we don't consume!

Regarding insulation the forum has all the information you want
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by rirto » 20/09/15, 21:55

Already for your surface opt rather for geothermal energy and more like you have conventional radiators: therefore warmer water, the cop of the cap drops enormously and the interest of the cap no longer exists. Finally, the more you have a large house, the more the interest of a very good insulation is very strong, in comparison the insulation on a small house is very interesting, reliable / durable and of real economy for decades, then on large surfaces the hesitation should not have existed, except for the mafia pro ...

Finally, for your surface, ask about industrial PACs which costs only a few thousand euros because it is a common product for a long time in use in business ... But you risk struggling to find a loyal and fair pro because you are an individual with €€€ who knows nothing about them ...

While knowing that the cap has a fairly short lifespan. but, the water / water pac (geothermal energy) remains valid for large surfaces like yours. my opinion, in your place, I would start with the insulation: walls? ceiling? window / door ?, then by ventilation with a high efficiency double flow, and maximize the free passive solar input if possible, if not active ... And finally, the energy you want, but you should know that the difference between the energy remains low in this configuration, you will choose your heating mode according to your ideologies, autonomy, constraints, etc ... So you can divide your bill by at least 3, and it's real! also more: http://www.comparerdevis.net/travaux_chauffage.htm
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by Obamot » 21/09/15, 13:02

Good but it's still BIG advertising your messages (even if you say true things .... and also FALSE)
rirto wrote:Already for your surface, opt for geothermal and more like you have conventional radiators: so hotter water, the cap cop drops a lot and the interest of the cap no longer exists. Finally, the more you have a large house, the more the interest of a very good insulation is very strong, in comparison the insulation on a small house is very interesting, reliable / durable and of real economy for decades, then on large surfaces the hesitation should not have existed, except for pro mafiosi...

Finally, for your surface, ask about industrial PACs which costs only a few thousand euros because it is a common product for a long time in use in business ... But you risk struggling to find a loyal and fair pro because you are an individual with €€€ who knows nothing about them ...

Knowing that the cap has a fairly short lifespan. however, the water / water cap (geothermal) remains valid for large areas like yours. my opinion, in your place, I would start with the insulation: walls? ceiling? window / door ?, then by ventilation with a high efficiency double flow, and maximize the free passive solar supply if possible, if not active ... And finally, the energy you want, but you should know that the differences between the energy remains low in this configuration, you will choose your heating mode according to your ideologies, autonomy, constraints, etc ... So you can divide by 3 minimum your bill, and it's real! also more: [url] -spam / travaux_chauffage.htm [/ url]

ahah I see that a modo was already at the cleat ;-)

rirto wrote:geothermal:
well, is it cheaper than a PAC? : Shock: : Cheesy: we cannot say what type of heating is necessary for a bioclimatic or other habitat, we must first do an ITE. So no more the CAP than geothermal energy, even less the CAP than geothermal energy (but you have to see it on the spot ...)

rirto wrote:except for the pro Mafia:
who is who ... (?) SPAM is ....? : Evil: those who make believe that they are in the camp of the "good guys?" : Evil:

rirto wrote:you will choose your heating mode according to your ideologies:
huh!
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Re: Small water-water heat pump for solar buffer recovery?




by Sannater1964 » 28/03/16, 11:37

Already for your surface opt rather for geothermal energy and more like you have conventional radiators: therefore warmer water, the cop of the cap drops enormously and the interest of the cap no longer exists. Finally, the more you have a large house, the more the interest of a very good insulation is very strong, in comparison the insulation on a small house is very interesting, reliable / durable and of real economy for decades, then on large surfaces the hesitation should not have existed, except for the mafia pro ...

Finally, for your surface, ask about industrial PACs which costs only a few thousand euros because it is a common product for a long time in use in business ... But you risk struggling to find a loyal and fair pro because you are an individual with €€€ who knows nothing about them ...

Knowing that the cap has a fairly short lifespan. however, the water / water cap (geothermal) remains valid for large areas like yours. my opinion, in your place, I would start with the insulation: walls? ceiling? window / door ?, then by ventilation with a high efficiency double flow, and maximize the free passive solar supply if possible, if not active ... And finally, the energy you want, but you should know that the differences between the energy remains low in this configuration, you will choose your heating mode according to your ideologies, autonomy, constraints, etc ... So you can divide by 3 minimum your bill, and it's real!
See as well : http://www.comparerdevis.net/travaux_chauffage.htm
Good luck,
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