Wind energy in France and Germany: key figures

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
C moa
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by C moa » 10/09/08, 10:02

Woodcutter wrote:Please note, I was only talking about concrete bases ... It is very clear in the construction of my post:
Woodcutter wrote:
C moa wrote:[...] And the 300 tonnes of concrete, after 25 years ?? What do we do with it ?? Well 300 tonnes we know how to backfill with but 1000 x 300 tonnes ....
And why would we remove them? [...]

The 300 tonnes are not only in the base, a large part is in the pillar hence my confusion ...

lumberjack wrote:I even said that it was bio-degradable ...
If it takes 100 years for a dam, why would it not hold 100 years elsewhere, except at sea because there I think it is really aggressive as an environment ... Finally even if the base lasts 50 years it is already not bad.
This is not a figure out of the hat, it is a wind farm which says that the life of a park is 20 to 25 years ...

Woodcutter wrote:I am not sure that the majority of the wind turbines are located "in the plowed fields" ...
Honestly, I don't know, but here too, it is a wind farm that says so.

Woodcutter wrote:[...]
Removing them means: again tracks for trucks, again machines, again earthworks, even more important than for the installation probably ...
Completely agree but the manufacturers say that there is no impact on the environment so why worry?
In my opinion, either you are very badly informed, or in very bad faith ...
I admit that I am sometimes tempted by the provocation like jonule with nuclear : Oops: : Oops: however, I too can read and:
the 14th reason to prefer windit is: "Wind power generation produces no toxic or polluting emissions or waste.". They don't say in the production phase, they say "LA production "which implies construction, maintenance, dementing ....
I'm still in bad faith ??
In the answers to misconceptions in the pollution part, they talk about everything except their impact in terms of construction, maintenance and disruption.
The environmental impact is quite low in operation but, as very often in many major projects, the construction phase is quite impacting on the environment ... I do not think that serious studies during implantations make an impasse there- above.
I am convinced that serious studies are being carried out but in the meantime, the speech which is made to Mr and Mrs toutlemonde is "we have no impact".

Woodcutter wrote:From the moment when all the initial studies have been done, the generators connected, the foundations and the access tracks, etc ... At what percentage of the initial investment do you estimate the cost of what I call " maintenance" ? :?:
At the end of 25 years it is not only maintenance, certainly the tracks are made and the pillars arrived but it will be necessary to completely reconstruct the wind turbine after the previous one was destroyed. This means redoing the impact studies, redoing the soil studies (the wind turbines will have evolved by then) and of course building the new equipment. The sums will be significant. How much I do not know, I am not a specialist but a banker / financier who sees a return on investment after 15 or 20 years, I am not sure that he will be so quick to invest.
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by C moa » 10/09/08, 10:10

Rulian wrote:But no serious manufacturer will have the nerve to present their products to you as "impact free". The simple reason is that no human activity is without impact. In the meantime, I guarantee you that today it is by far the least dirty means of production of elec that we know how to do.

Where did you see that the manufacturers claim that their machines have no impact? Let us stop lending words and intentions to others according to what suits us.
I imagine that Wind Planet is part of the nuclear lobby ... : Shock: : Shock:
It's the same kind of baseless assertion as the 200m pillar shot ...
I had read that the mats were 100 m minimum. In all cases, if the manufacturers want to increase the power of the wind turbines, they will have no other means than to increase the exchange surface, therefore the size of the blades and therefore the height of the CQFD mast. So today is 100 m but tomorrow ??
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by jonule » 10/09/08, 10:12

yes you are in bad faith: when we say "it is a wind planet" which says that wind power is not good, the least of things is to quote the exact passage that we can find.

we wait.
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by C moa » 10/09/08, 10:24

jonule wrote:Cmoa, we can see that you have never raided in winter for your electric heating!

And for good reason, I never had one ... : Mrgreen:
I tell you that there are all electric HLM, electric heating, electric plates, etc etc!
Look, I lived for 5 years in an HLM in the ZUP of Angers which dated from the 70s and we were all on gas with central underfloor heating. My grandparents and my father lived a good part of their life in a ZUP of Nantes, my wife also in buildings there also rather old (years 60-70) and it was also with gas with central heating with gas or fuel oil.
Why ?? Because at the time the cheapest energy was gas.
This is probably not true everywhere but most of the old HLM (the most recent I don't know) are far from being all electric.
for the problem you raise on wind power, that is for sure, it should be nationalized, but that is like any production of energy, so that it does not fall on the mercantiles, like the resellers of nuclear power plants so as not to quote that they ...
We at least agree on this point. Incidentally AREVA, CEA and others are national companies.

but come on, devellopes my big one, we're looking at you! : Cheesy:
Why ?? Are there people who do this very well?
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by jonule » 10/09/08, 10:39

you've never had an electric heater!
well I can tell you that those who have had toasters that heat the air that goes by the VMC do not like that at all! and that in addition it is out of the invoice in winter ...
well that's not the subject but I tell you that there are HLM bars that are all electric and that you are forced to work to be able to heat the air that goes by the VMC, among others.

EDF was privatized by the right don't you remember? : Cheesy: but if, the socialists said that it is the first thing that they will do while returning to the capacity: renationalize EDF.
Cmoa wrote:but come on, devellopes my big one, we're looking at you! Cheesy Grin
Why ?? Are there people who do this very well?


NO NO we don't run away, we assume! I recite to you:

Cmoa wrote:
Jonule wrote:on a central you cannot change the tank so everything stops. and radioactive concrete, what do you do with it after 25 years? will you bury it in your garden?

There too there are dementia channels which are provided for by law with the associated budgets.


THEN: what are the "dementia channels", their company name? by whom are they mandated and paid? when do they intervene? on what decision?
what is the associated budget? national or private, where is it? who does it manage? is this money available, injected by the lobby into the price of electricity?
and finally .. what "law" are you talking about? why do we need a law to manage nuclear power plants? out of need for nationalization? nationalization of losses or profits?
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by Woodcutter » 10/09/08, 10:55

Wind power acceptance survey ... in Quebec!

http://www.energie2007.fr/fr/actualites ... ondage.php
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by C moa » 10/09/08, 11:09

jonule wrote:THEN: what are the "dementia channels", their company name? by whom are they mandated and paid? when do they intervene? on what decision?
what is the associated budget? national or private, where is it? who does it manage? is this money available, injected by the lobby into the price of electricity?
A small link from Mr Google
In terms of companies, these are generally large construction and nuclear companies (Bouygues, Spie Thermatome, Endel ...). On Chinon, the old sections were being deconstructed, some were completely dismantled. We realized on this occasion that we were going faster than expected.
Of course the price of deconstruction is resold in the price of Kwh.
and finally .. what "law" are you talking about? why do we need a law to manage nuclear power plants? out of need for nationalization? nationalization of losses or profits?
For the same reasons as the dismantling of wind turbines and their financing is regulated by law as explained to us by Rulian.
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by C moa » 10/09/08, 11:11

Without trying to argue, I read this this morning. It's a bit old but does anyone know anything about it ??
They also speak of events occurring on the side of Dunkirk :?: :?:
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by jonule » 10/09/08, 11:45

don't come after that to say that you're not beating on wind power in favor of nuclear power ... do you compare the tearing of a blade to the radioactive cloud of the explosion of the core of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor?

you were talking about concrete for your PDF:
The waste generated by the deconstruction of the nine EDF nuclear reactors at shutdown represents significant quantities (600 tonnes of non-nuclear waste, and 000 tonnes of nuclear waste) and are of diverse nature (materials, pipes,
concrete...). This waste is managed in the same way as waste generated by the operation of a power plant: it is sorted, compacted and
packaged before being transported to storage centers adapted to their nature.

so how much does it cost? is it the same company that rakes in the profits from the resale of electricity?
waiting; the 200.000 tonnes of power plants will be buried in our French soil ... who would have wanted it? you reap what you sow.

otherwise let me tell you that your google link on gouv.fr is worth nothing to me, I told you this lobby 1000 times. your PDF is from 2003.

other sources:
cost of delusion (wiki):
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9mant%C3%A8lement
distressing conclusions of nuclear deception and associated waste management, made to the president of the republic in 2005, read the conclusions:
http://lesrapports.ladocumentationfranc ... 9/0000.pdf
Like, like all the glassy construction companies interested in the juicy market, the job market is recruiting to dismantle, without experience:
http://www.travail-emploi.com/?q=jobs/o ... LEAIRE_H_F

So, your quotes on the wind planet, wind? where do they speak of a 25-year fleet profitability period? : Evil:
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by Woodcutter » 10/09/08, 13:50

jonule wrote:[...]
I tell you that there are all electric HLM, electric heating, electric plates, etc etc!
these are factories with electric consumption, which make EDF happy, you just have to see the mouth of the transformers of these HLM bars ...
so maybe the new ones, but not the old ones which are 30 years old and have not yet been destroyed, with toasters as heating, without regulation etc ...

To deny them is propaganda, they are "social housing" whose rent is cheap, but not energy consumption ... [...]
I lived 5 years in an HLM built at the end of the 70s which had a boiler room (fuel or gas, I know more) ... This is certainly only an example ...
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