Low pressure hydrogen storage

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
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by jonule » 29/02/08, 10:19

mmmmmmmmmmh!
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rescwood
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by rescwood » 29/02/08, 11:32

OK for the yields, but it is not the dominant criterion for transport, it is the range AND the ease of fuel storage


Yep, and that's the starting point

In practice, the CEA forecasts for 2015 a density of 2,7 kWh / L, i.e. 9,72 MJ / L Much too low, because 10 MJ / 40 MJ = 0,25. To compete with hydrocarbons, the efficiency of a heat pump should be 4 times that of a heat engine (30%): impossible (120%, except for fans of hydrogen surunities)


And what will you do when there are no more hydrocarbons available to meet our energy needs?

Hydrogen is an interesting potential candidate as a “transportable and storable” energy vector to replace hydrocarbons.
In this context, the fuel cell is the best technology available to convert it into mechanical energy.
Barring a sensational new discovery, the most efficient technology for making hydrogen is the electrolysis of water. If the implementation of spectacular laboratory reactions for schoolboys in need of thrills was an "econological" solution to its synthesis, it would already have been applied for a long time in industrial processes consuming H2.

Production on demand in situ in the toto, with water and a highly electropositive metal capable of breaking water!



For info, the Na must be stored in oil, petroleum ether, or in an inert atmosphere because it oxidizes with the humidity of the air. Same for the K. This may pose some small technical problems ...

For the schoolboys:

Fe + 2HCl -> FeCl2 + H2
Zn + 2HCl-> ZnCl2 + H2
2 Al + 2 NaOH + 6 H2O -> 2 NaAl (OH) 4 + 3 H2
Last edited by rescwood the 29 / 02 / 08, 11: 38, 1 edited once.
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by Remundo » 29/02/08, 11:37

Hi Tigger!

I am Winnie the Auvergne : Cheesy:

Are you an Auvergne too? Because on this subject, it seems to me that I am the only representative of the Arvernes :D
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by Remundo » 29/02/08, 11:49

Hello Rescwood!

rescwood wrote:And what will you do when there are no more hydrocarbons available to meet our energy needs?


Ah ah! Don't worry about me .. I have lots of ideas ... We must make hydrocarbons of solar origin ... In particular by thermolysis of biomass. And above all to promote the electrical / thermal hybridization of vehicles... 1L / 100 km is quite possible for 75% of totos who make short trips (<100 km). The complement is electric (solar of course : Cheesy: )

I already have ultracompact motors under my elbow allowing hybridization of the full hybrid type ...

And I got the green light from the Ministry of Defense / INPI and I will publish the PHRSD concept very soon:
hyperthermic trap of direct solar radiation

it will heat you guys :!: : Lol:

Unless there is another sensational discovery, the most efficient technology for making hydrogen is the electrolysis of water.

Perhaps not the most efficient depending on the origin of the electricity, if it is renewable or solar, OK :!:

Production on demand in situ in the toto, with water and a highly electropositive metal capable of breaking water!

For info, the Na must be stored in oil, petroleum ether, or in an inert atmosphere because it oxidizes with the humidity of the air. Same for the K. This may pose some small technical problems ...

For the schoolboys:

Fe + 2HCl -> FeCl2 + H2
Zn + 2HCl-> ZnCl2 + H2
2 Al + 2 NaOH + 6 H2O -> 2 NaAl (OH) 4 + 3 H2


Well you need hydrochloric acid ... you have to make it with dichloric acid ... from salt electrolysis ... making pure sodium itself.

Or else you need soda and aluminum ... we're back to electrolysis.

The storage of sodium poses no particular problem, just put it away from water and dip the ingots in oil ...

Compared to petrol ... we don't have fun smoking next door. For sodium, it's water, that's all!

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by rescwood » 29/02/08, 12:38

Quote:
Unless there is another sensational discovery, the most efficient technology for making hydrogen is the electrolysis of water.

Perhaps not the most efficient depending on the origin of the electricity, if it is renewable or solar, OK


And if it's not renewable or solar, what is the most effective then?
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by Remundo » 29/02/08, 12:41

Rescwood,

I wanted to say that solar seems to me the most interesting : Cheesy:

I didn't shock you too much :?: :P
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by jonule » 29/02/08, 12:59

rescwood wrote:
In practice, the CEA forecasts for 2015 a density of 2,7 kWh / L, i.e. 9,72 MJ / L Much too low, because 10 MJ / 40 MJ = 0,25. To compete with hydrocarbons, the efficiency of a heat pump should be 4 times that of a heat engine (30%): impossible (120%, except for fans of hydrogen surunities)


And what will you do when there are no more hydrocarbons available to meet our energy needs?


uranium is also a fossil "fuel", which will disappear in 85 years according to our current consumption, according to I do not know what source ... I bet that there will be oil, with all the power stations added, without counting the recharge of electric vehicles ...
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by rescwood » 29/02/08, 14:28

I didn't shock you too much


No, but there are readers who could draw erroneous conclusions from certain comments ...

Ah ah! Don't worry about me .. I have lots of ideas ... We must make hydrocarbons of solar origin ... In particular by thermolysis of biomass.


There is no hydrocarbons in the sun, and to my knowledge no one has yet found a way to convert radiation into hydrocarbons : Cheesy: . As for the biomass, the yield is excecrable :| : only 1% of the solar radiation converted. And if we add that of thermolysis ..... Besides, perfectly useless and wasteful of energy if we cultivate a species that naturally produces combustible products.
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by jonule » 29/02/08, 14:32

I think that remundo wanted to talk about BTL (biomass to liquid) fuel like biogas transformed into diesel fuel?
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by Remundo » 29/02/08, 15:47

Ah yes! We can thermolysis biomass, fisher reaction Tropsch behind, and presto, fuel !!

There's a whole bunch of systems as Jonule points out, you BTL (biomass to liquid) and CTL (coal to liquid) (coal = coal) that the Germans already used during WWII to power their planes ... They had no more than coal :!:

Here, take a look at this
http://www.cea.fr/var/plain/storage/ori ... 8c4662.pdf

My hyperthermic solar trap will provide heat above 1000 ° C without any problems.

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