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Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
Ruthenian
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by Ruthenian » 26/05/12, 14:01

netshaman wrote:So guys, I powder you all!



If you say so !!!

If not to return to the post, I think it will never pay off its investment.

Even on the coasts of the Med, we would have to do the math, 100 years, 200 years. Place for example, Leucate (not the village), the seaside resort or the pond.
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by Did67 » 26/05/12, 16:06

1) I find the subject interesting

2) Then, it seems to me that it is necessary to distinguish "financial report" and / or "profitability" on the one hand (it is a debate) and an approach "I reduce my footprint" (with what I can m ' offer taking into account my situation, with possibly some shortcuts like: instead of buying the last model at 15 euros, I buy an electric bike at 000 and uèn I install a PV roof at 1, etc. .). Because ultimately, if we want to be consumers "consciously", we cannot reduce the debate to profitability (why compare a CESI to an electric water heater, when we are "anti-nuclear" because we do not want anyone to find themselves in the orchard of a nuclear power plant, why not sacrifice the mania for fashionable cars for a CESI, or a "high tech" kitchen for a CESI ...).

For me, the debate around "I arbitrate my consumption in this direction" is more judicious than that around "what is the profitability of such or such equipment" ...

3) 5 years ago, after having been close to death (infarction), I decided to bazard my fuel oil boiler which still worked for a pellet boiler. In the event of my death, imagining my funeral, I thought that one of the things that I had not done is not to have made this project a reality (I was interested in it furtively for 1 or 2 years)...

So I took action.

And the only questioning about the profitability of the operation annoyed me.

That said, it will be "profitable" much faster than expected (with fuel oil at 0,75 euros in my calculations).

So my "favorite" also turns out to be a "favorite", a posteriori!
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by plasmanu » 26/05/12, 17:52

+1
quantifying its economic footprint is impractical.
In terms of financial return or profitability.
When you love you don't count: good basis of calculation to start.
We want to consume less on the counter without depriving ourselves.

We start with a budget and we do with it.
Everything is done on a case by case basis.
For my case, I have sun, wind and water for free
It is:
3000w solar peak of the EDF contract, it's a gift from the state + EDF: we don't refuse.
My own solar installation with grid injection. Currently 2 * 90w peak for a 500w injector.
The 500w max peak wind turbine + its 500w injector but at 100w it is the end of the world.
Soon solar DHW to consume less elec.
As I can, I will increase my number of personal panels.
up to 1000w if I prick the wind inverter.
Because the wind turbine is chiadée with the MTTP.
It's going to end: regulator + battery on a dedicated line 12v permanent outdoor lighting style + cellars, with dumploader made of bulbs.


And if I produce more than I consume. Gift to EDF: I have that less on my conscience: these fucking nuclear power plants have competition.
It will be enough for me to follow my overproduction to adapt my consumption in concept: pool pump style + various voluntary consumption ...
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by Did67 » 26/05/12, 21:53

1) It would be nice if you say "common people". I do not understand everything (MTFP?), Although I am interested in a lot of things and engineer training (agronomist) ...

2) And that you still give cost elements (it's different from "profitability": combine to you but on the table? Or otherwise, if I want to imitate you, me the boeotian, how much should I put on the table? So inherit? Or save elsewhere? or win the lottery?).

3) For my part, I always have in mind (but have not yet taken action) a connected PV roof.

My priority, to convince myself that it is possible, is to gain 30% in consumption. And to be consistent with my argument: closing Fessnehiem is possible without using a candle!

But with around 3 kWh per year, I have already scratched and it gets harder!

I have to make a "technological leap" in terms of high-consumption devices: LL with double input connected to the CESI (but the one I have does not want to die and I have qualms about giving it away just because it is old - I am too!), A +++ freezer ... I could also sell off this old PC for a tablet? And there is also the (electric) oven ...
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by plasmanu » 26/05/12, 22:22

MPPT is Maximum Power Point Tracking
It is the management of the network inverter / injector to extract the maximum available at all times: better efficiency.
The costs are low.
For EDF and the 3000w peak it is transparent since it is self funded.
2 panels of 90w + cable + injector network 500w solar less than 400 €
500w wind turbine + 500w hybrid network injector (solar or wind) + mast around € 600
The wind turbine is an Ista breeze marine 500w: it's not the best. it's Turkish, but no German technology even if it comes from Germany.
I put larger AirX (American) blades: it whistles and comes out just 100w.
I hesitate to order a new GTI (Grid Tie Inverter): special three-phase wind network inverter.
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plasmanu
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by plasmanu » 27/05/12, 07:03

for the wind turbine I had extra costs.
Hub + blades 100 €
Hybrid regulator (500w 12v for airX wind turbine + 200w solar) € 217

I still have to test if the regulator agrees to give to my solar GTI by accepting input solar + wind simultaneously.

Because wind turbine on regulator then GTI (hybrid), works less well
as a wind turbine directly on GTI (hybrid).
With the voltage taking off suddenly, the regulator sends the dumploader (overload bypass path) illico, and the MTTP of the GTI starts even later.

For the moment only the wind turbine arrives at the regulator.
Because the panels on their GTI (solar) work so well that it hurts my heart ... to un-wire everything to test.

I have 3 solutions left:
1 the most expensive: a wind turbine worthy of the name 1000 to 1500 €
2 expensive: the big deep discharge battery 300 to 500 €
3 the cheapest: a specific three-phase wind turbine GTI 150 to 300 €

For solar panels it is approximately 1.1 € 1.2 € per peak Watt.
I had taken this in Germany.
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0589321312
216.90 € delivered for 180w peak in 2 panels
€ 96 per panel and € 24.90 shipping

GTI: Grid (network) Tie (linked / attached) Inverter (converter)
It's like a computer inverter, except that it measures the sine wave of EDF and the layer to inject at the right time, with each Hertz it recalculates. If it does not find the EDF signal it cuts itself and does not inject for safety: it is the island mode.
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by Did67 » 27/05/12, 09:24

So I don't think I'm wrong: you are "expert" enough to install everything yourself ???

Which is an important element of debate!

[This is one of the big "hidden" elements of the debates and therefore a cause of misunderstandings; I also followed that on CESI; between someone like me who buys an installation made by a craftsman and someone who is able to install it themselves, the cost, for the same power - the same "service" varies easily from single or double or even a little more. I'm not bad at electricity; I do a lot of "basic" mods or wiring - installing lights, outlets, or modifying circuits myself, pretty much within standards. But there, I would probably dry up. Result: for some (autoinstallers), it is "magnificent"; for the others, a pit, if they find a craftsman who wants to carry out their project correctly! We are not all "equal" when it comes to our "green" projects! ...].

But thank you for this info.
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plasmanu
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by plasmanu » 27/05/12, 10:55

Indeed: it's Self Manu made : Mrgreen:
In electronics I am a ball.
But I like to learn.
The red son is the most
black is the least
If there is a yellow green, it is usually ground / earth.
It won't look much further.
Knowing how to use a soldering iron is a breeze with flux (soldering water) and good tin.
Don't be afraid to go up on the roof too.
It is within the reach of the first pécor: like handling a screwdriver ...

It is true that I have a certain capacity to repair everything, to retype
It helps. Identify the problem well and deduce the solution / response without wasting time.

To save money it is essential to know your needs.
The digital edf sagem counter allows you to know the real-time and cumulative consumption.

The reference tool: that's it
https://www.econologie.com/shop/prise-el ... p-238.html
We consume
We produce
We measure
We deduce.

The device has only one direction: measures what comes out of the socket.
We open it and reverse it: it measures what fits into the socket.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 27/05/12, 11:16

I would like to relate, the sad experience lived by my neighbor, who had to change the tank and the burner:

we are in day / night subscription, and we take advantage of it at night to launch the machines.

there is a peculiarity that will perhaps jump, it is an electric water heater that we start summer when you turn off the boiler instead of putting it in summer mode'. The former owners said it was more economical.

NEVER do this, if you don't want to take the risk of the boiler tank cracking! Repetitive thermal shocks (expansion and retraction) are deadly in stresses for melting (thus it is a false calculation to believe that one can go from the operating temperature to the ambient temperature without side damage ...).

And if we want to keep it for a long time without changing it (and taking into account that we are rarely there - during production - when they are pouring, to see if everything went well ... So c 'is a precautionary principle to adopt: in these conditions it is not worth stopping it completely in the summer to earn a few euros in fuel oil, but at the risk of losing 10'000 € after just a few years of service. It is not for nothing that there is a "summer" position, it must be used!)

Mebon, everyone does as they want, eh. : Lol:
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plasmanu
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by plasmanu » 27/05/12, 12:25

It's clear.
But calculation made in cold region.
In the south we heat up. 6 months then ...
The problem is all these old boilers that refuse to start once the wind comes.
A goose that lays the golden eggs for plumbers / heating engineers.
Everyone calls at the same time.
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