Deep geothermal energy

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
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Napo dwarf
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by Napo dwarf » 03/06/12, 20:55

What I don't understand is why we refrain from thinking about subjects

when you have 10% unemployment, is it very consistent to continue naturalizing?
does it make sense to keep leaving our sovereign debt open to market attacks?
are all civil servant posts really in the global interest?

Why in the name of decency should we be silent?


it is clear that some soils are not suitable but why not deepen on, what seems to be recurring, this solution to plug the cracks to avoid the flow of water?
What I see is a modification of the natural flow of water. Result ? serious not serious?
I know absolutely nothing about it, but it's an important thing that could be

Technically has this ever been done? on what scale? Harmful?

return on investment ?

Comparison of reports: overall gain / risk?

Concerning the purely physical side diffusion in semi-infinite medium all that dedeleco tells is true
anyone with a good DUT GTE level can confirm it
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by moinsdewatt » 08/09/12, 13:34

the Japanese Mitsubishi Heavy Industry receives a firm order from Mexico for a 50 MW geothermal power plant.
250 km west of Mexico City

It is the 12th geothermal power plant that MHI has supplied to Mexico.

MHI Receives Order from CFE, Mexico, For 50 MW Geothermal Energy Plant

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Ltd. (MHI), jointly with Mitsubishi Corporation, has received a full turnkey order from Comision Federal de Electricidad (CFE) of Mexico to build a 50 MW (megawatt) geothermal power generation plant at its Los Azufres III power station.

The power plant, which is slated for completion in December 2014, represents the 12th geothermal power plant to be supplied by MHI to Mexico.

.................

http://www.evwind.es/2012/09/07/mhi-rec ... ant/23065/
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by Obamot » 08/09/12, 14:27

They want to offset global warming by cooling the earth from the inside? : Mrgreen:
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by moinsdewatt » 29/10/12, 19:42

Launch of the construction of a geothermal power plant in Alsace:

RITTERSHOFFEN, Bas-Rhin (Reuters) Oct 29, 2012

The site of the future geothermal power plant which will supply heat to an Alsatian factory by taking advantage of the high temperatures at moderate depths in the Rhine basin, was inaugurated on Monday in Rittershoffen (Bas-Rhin).

Presented as a world first, in terms of deep geothermal energy, it should provide, from 2015, 24 thermal megawatts 24 hours a day, for at least twenty years, at the Roquette Frères factory, an industrial group specializing in grain processing.

This represents 30% of the site's heat requirements, the annual equivalent of 16.000 tonnes of oil and a saving for the environment of 39.000 tonnes of CO2 per year.

"It's a first full of suspense. Are we going to find water? Will its temperature be high enough? Will the flow be sufficient?" Said Fabrice Gourdellier, president of the operating company, Ecogi (Exploitation of geothermal heat for industry).

Electricité de Strasbourg (subsidiary of EDF), Roquette Frères and the Caisse des Dépôts et Consignations, the three shareholders of Ecogi, do not set out on an adventure.

Ecogi benefits from 20 years of research on deep geothermal energy carried out by EDF, Electricité de Strasbourg and German electricians in Soultz-sous-Forêt, located a few kilometers away.

A geological "anomaly" in the Rhine basin, characterized by high temperatures at relatively shallow depths (50 degrees at 400 meters, 200 to 5.000 meters) made it possible to commission, in 2008, an experimental power station of 1,5 , XNUMX MGW.

BET ON THE FUTURE

On the two hectares of the Rittershoffen site, located by the roadside in the middle of the fields, the 45-meter high drilling mast has been drilling for the past month a first well whose diameter of 47 cm at the top will reduce to 20 cm at the bottom , 2.500 in meters.

It is at this depth that geologists think they will find, in a naturally fractured rock, water at 180 degrees offering a flow of 230 m3 / h which will validate the project..

Next year, it will be a question of digging a second well to make a water convection loop and move on to the construction of the power station itself.

An exchanger will transfer the heat from the water in the primary geothermal circuit, saturated with salt, to the secondary freshwater loop which will supply the factory, 15 km away, via a buried and insulated pipe.

The water will pass from 160 to 70 or 75 degrees after recovery of its heat by the various installations: starch factories, glucose works, ethanol works and other transformation workshops.

The 30-kilometer secondary circuit alone represents more than a third of the investment, or 17 million out of a total of 45.

The project, which is part of the geothermal energy development objectives defined by the Grenelle Environment Forum, receives a 25 million euro subsidy from Ademe (French Environment and energy control). This also guarantees up to 90% of the financial risk, with the Alsace region and the Caisse des Dépôts.

As for the cost price of this future energy, it remains confidential but competitive, we are assured at Roquette, a group which posts a turnover of 3 billion euros.

"We are making a bet on the future depending on the expected evolution of gas and CO2 prices," Clément Robert, director of the Beinheim plant, told Reuters.


http://www.boursorama.com/actualites/la ... b5915d6856
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by dedeleco » 29/10/12, 22:07

Beautiful, pretty serious project, with the risk that the geological estimates are not completely exact:

at 2.500 meters.

It is at this depth that geologists think they will find, in a naturally fractured rock, water at 180 degrees offering a flow of 230 m3 / h which will validate the project.


with a large flow, and a virtual volcano temperature with 1 ° C every 15 m, twice that usual elsewhere !!

It is to be hoped that the high flow rate, 69l / s almost an artesian well, will be present with in this rock fractured by the collapse of the Alsace moat (earthquakes for millions of years) a reserve of water at this temperature sufficient for decades ???
ADEME and the region are taking this financial risk on their back !! .

250m3 / h gives a volume of 131,4million m3 over a year, i.e. a cube of 508m per side or 1/8 of km3 per year of hot water withdrawn and reinjected cold into it !!!

So for decades of operation, to cool to 20 ° C, one km3 every 8 years, you need km3 of very fractured rock, connected for km by these fractures very open by the collapse of the Alsatian basin, as if suspended in the air !!!

A priori it should work long enough to cool the earth deeply, and then, too cold, to reactivate, once the hot source has dried up, it will be enough to recharge in summer with solar panels at surface concentration, to make it perpetual , a long-term solution which does not seem to envisage, for deep geothermal storage of concentrated solar energy which has thus become perpetual !!!

It is interesting to estimate the area of ​​solar collectors necessary to renew the 250m3 / h of water heat at 180 ° C per year !! which represent approximately 50MW from 180 ° C to 10 ° C, 24 hours a day and which can be roughly supplied by 24km1 of concentration panels, on sunny days in Alsace (sun especially in summer)!
By placing these panels on portions of unused roofs and floors, along the 15km of pipes that lose half the heat, it is possible to make this project certain and without risk in the very long term, well beyond 20 years. ,, since it only becomes a simple storage of solar heat in less than a year.

The CO2 savings are significant and without any drying up, with solar charging.
In addition it can be installed everywhere even if the thermal gradient is lower, in particular the old oil and shale gas wells, to be converted into storage of concentrated solar power plants, giving their energy 24 hours a day !!.
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by Obamot » 30/10/12, 13:17

: Arrowd: : Arrowd: : Arrowd:
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by moinsdewatt » 31/10/12, 19:51

IDF: calls for applications "Deep geothermal energy" "Heating networks"

31 Oct 2012 enerzine

The Ile-de-France Regional Directorate of ADEME has just launched the 2013 sessions of calls for applications "Deep geothermal energy" and "Heat networks" in order to meet the energy challenge of Ile-de-France by 2020.
These are mainly aimed at contracting authorities, public and private, wishing to benefit from support to develop their installations.

Two complementary calls for projects

Currently, there are 127 heat networks in Ile-de-France which represent 9.376 MW of installed power and 13,6 TWh of heat delivered, ie 50% of the heat delivered by all the networks in France. With a total length of 1.421 km, they serve almost 12.000 substations and approximately 1,1 million equivalent - housing.

Image

In order to reach the objective of connecting 450.000 housing equivalents1 to district heating networks by 2020, the Ile-de-France Regional Directorate of ADEME is launching the call for applications for "Heating networks" in 2013. Only networks mainly supplied by renewable sources (biomass, geothermal) or recovery sources (UIOM2 in particular) will be supported, including:

• projects to create new networks;
• structuring network extension projects;
• network interconnections.

Heating networks represent an essential outlet for renewable and recovered energies3 (EnR & R). Currently, 50% of the Ile-de-France networks are supplied by cogeneration facilities4, 9% (or 11 networks) by UIOMs and 22% by geothermal energy. In total, renewable energies represent 30% of the primary energy consumed, the target for 2020 being to reach 51%.

The 2013 “Deep Geothermal” call for applications, also launched by the Ile-de-France Regional Directorate of ADEME, must help achieve this objective, by supporting:

• the creation of new geothermal installations;
• the rehabilitation of existing installations, in particular for the replacement of existing boreholes with new doublets.

.................


http://www.enerzine.com/4/14690+idf---a ... leur+.html
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by dedeleco » 01/11/12, 00:16

An important detailed BRGM official report which shows that this deep geothermal energy is not eternal et has run out in the past in the Paris region, 8 to 15 years, and who also uses the technique of hydraulic fracturing in Alsace with chemicals like shale gas !!!!

Read this very in-depth BRGM report:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 7FrT1A.pdf

http://www.brgm.fr/brgm/geothermie/fichiers/num6.pdf

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%A9othermie

http://www.brgm.fr/brgm/geothermie/fich ... num002.pdf

http://www.brgm.fr/dcenewsFile?ID=1055

Image

Image


Image


So this lifespan of deep geothermal energy quite random, according to luck, is a crucial element of the profitability of this solution not as miraculous as dreamed !!

The only solution is to recharge the heat with the heat lost in summer by burning the garbage (this is done in the Paris region) or by recharging with solar heat wasted in summer, recoverable with concentrated solar panels, of variable magnitude as the temperature necessary to recharge the water table in heat, and avoid exhaustion by making the geothermal water table perpetual, like the sun !!
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by chatelot16 » 01/11/12, 00:41

doing deep drilling to recover energy for ten years is a little sad

to store waste heat is better, because the natural temperature of the deep soil is hot so there is no loss: ideal heat storage!

transforming geothermal wells that no longer work into solar heat storage is a good idea
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by Obamot » 01/11/12, 13:25

This is why to tell the truth when one makes a drilling, one should regularly make coring as soon as one changes the geological layer, since it is this reality there which will determine the performance of the heat storage site in depth!

Without that, I very much fear that we will continue to speak a little in a vacuum, since it is not our "personal willWhich will dictate the best place for choosing a site, but the potential optimal storage conditions for the location of the thermal balloon thus created! (Lol)

So unless you are a soothsayer you have to ... dig to find out (notwithstanding the techniques of mapping the subsoil thanks to all the known diagnostic techniques: by resonance, examination of the sedimentary layers after a landslide or whatever -I etc ...).

Besides the boreholes themselves can help us to progress in the knowledge of the nature of the geological subsoil at regional level ...
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