here I retrace a little the email exchanges (resume) that I had the above and I would like you to tell me your opinion on this "alternative" to nuclear
************* Pierrefan *************************
Looking at your site, I did not find reference to deep geothermal energy. It is still a great alternative to nuclear even if for the moment the production remains limited between 20 and 30 Mw scheduled for next year.
here is the site where we talk
http://www.soultz.net/fr/
************* Christophe *************************
I visited the site of Soultz ... The problem is that the technology is oil ... = Technology sponsored by Shell with drilling technology and proprietary patents.
he also work strongly with Schlumberger (drill head) ...
All this says nothing that is worth ...
************* Pierrefan *************************
technology is already used quite extensively
there is a presentation that details quite well
http://www.soultz.net/fr/rapports/fete_science2003.pdf
For Shell, you're right it's the main sponsor. But, it's because it's the only major oil group not to have invested in solutions other than oil. And to make up for the delay I think they were forced to invest in it.
I think that, yes, there are necessarily areas of shadows, but I think it is an interesting alternative to nuclear.
And this kind of alternative has no chance of surviving if there is not a big group behind. And it does not seem to me that it is expensive if we look at the total cost of Soultz project (if we believe the site), it is 54 Meuros. I find it cheap if you compare to investments for a football stadium (between 100 and 300 Meuros). Or the investment of several billion for Iter. And in the PDf, the global investment is 500M euros while these are factories that already produce. But having found only this source of information it is difficult to get a real idea.
deep geothermal in Soultz-sous-drills
deep geothermal in Soultz-sous-drills
Last edited by pierrefan the 15 / 05 / 06, 11: 46, 1 edited once.
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54 M € ... It's more than I thought. saw the site I was thinking about 10 or 20M € (already huge) ...
When we talk about investment, we also have to talk about return to investment.
Invert 100M € in a football stadium that will be profitable in a few years (for example thanks to a global ) it's not an "expensive" investment!
On the other hand invest 54M € in a project that will be depreciated in 40 years (fictitious figure) ... it is "expensive". But on the other hand in this case, it's research and prototyping ... so profitability is not necessarily necessary ...
But one thing is on: the presence of Shell and Schluberger on the project has a double interest for them:
1) improve their image.
2) lower their taxes (R&D investments are deductible)
ps: I should still make an article about this technology on the site ...
When we talk about investment, we also have to talk about return to investment.
Invert 100M € in a football stadium that will be profitable in a few years (for example thanks to a global ) it's not an "expensive" investment!
On the other hand invest 54M € in a project that will be depreciated in 40 years (fictitious figure) ... it is "expensive". But on the other hand in this case, it's research and prototyping ... so profitability is not necessarily necessary ...
But one thing is on: the presence of Shell and Schluberger on the project has a double interest for them:
1) improve their image.
2) lower their taxes (R&D investments are deductible)
ps: I should still make an article about this technology on the site ...
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Total did 500 000 € of benefit every 26 minutes last year ...
So 54 M on 15 years ... for them it's a trifle ...
So 54 M on 15 years ... for them it's a trifle ...
Last edited by Christophe the 15 / 12 / 08, 18: 41, 1 edited once.
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shallower geothermal energy
Hi,
sorry to deviate a little, but it seems to me that geothermal sites called "deep", to produce electricity are relatively few, and assume, as it was said initial investments quite substantial (except for Shell without doubt...)
On the other hand, the shallower geothermis, which makes it possible to recover heat, is accessible almost everywhere, with radon problems (!).
It starts with the Provençal / Canadian well, less than two meters to dig, it's pretty basic but already effective (in my house, the mere existence of a "buried" basement gives me some frigories during the heat wave).
Variant with some meters lower, the "thermal wells".
Etc, declination in the depths, except that there, the deeper we go, the more we will find possibilities of heat.
Well, before we replace oil, nuclear and other gases, there is a margin, but on the horizon 10-15 years, it could be in a few tens of% energy savings of the aforementioned.
sorry to deviate a little, but it seems to me that geothermal sites called "deep", to produce electricity are relatively few, and assume, as it was said initial investments quite substantial (except for Shell without doubt...)
On the other hand, the shallower geothermis, which makes it possible to recover heat, is accessible almost everywhere, with radon problems (!).
It starts with the Provençal / Canadian well, less than two meters to dig, it's pretty basic but already effective (in my house, the mere existence of a "buried" basement gives me some frigories during the heat wave).
Variant with some meters lower, the "thermal wells".
Etc, declination in the depths, except that there, the deeper we go, the more we will find possibilities of heat.
Well, before we replace oil, nuclear and other gases, there is a margin, but on the horizon 10-15 years, it could be in a few tens of% energy savings of the aforementioned.
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Econology wrote:Total did 500 000 € of benefit every 26 minutes last year ...
So 54 M on 15 years ... for them it's a bagatele ...
yes that's why I say it's a low investment and a technology that does not cost much and already produces between 1 / 5 and 1 / 6 from a small nuclear power plant.
If the investment was more consistent I think we would be much more ahead
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Philippe Schutt wrote:My friend told me that on TV they talked about earthquake problems in Switzerland, because of deep geothermal drilling.
If it's not the sky that falls on our head, it's the ground that jumps us in the face ...
I confirm the information ...
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We are still really late on it in France as in Germany. There are geothermal plants around the world: http://geoheat.oit.edu/bulletin/bull25-3/art2.pdf
There are French departments where geothermal energy could have been developed for a very long time, Reunion, Martinique and Guadeloupe (4 MW only).
There are French departments where geothermal energy could have been developed for a very long time, Reunion, Martinique and Guadeloupe (4 MW only).
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