Vertical wind turbine autoconstruction

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
jsdu19
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Vertical wind turbine autoconstruction




by jsdu19 » 24/02/13, 12:29

Hello everyone ! I’m JS, for quite some time I’ve been reading with great attention all the subjects that deal with renewable energies and that made me want to produce electricity by myself, so the project that I present to you it is a small generator with permanent magnets activated by a wind turbine with vertical axis, the project is not yet completed you will see for yourself what remains to be done (silent block reinforcements of the blades for gusts, painting for example ) but it works very well for a few days with this freezing wind, on the other hand I will certainly rewind the strator with a wire of larger diameter to have a little more amperage because there with this wind (15 to 30 km / h) I just light up a 12 volt 5watts bulb ...
you will notice that almost everything is done with recycling and what is lying around in my small workshop, I optimize my low resources by computer to create my 3d plans and make the most of them so here are 3 images to get an idea of ​​the stupid , Image Image Image , then on my youtube 2 small videos, they start with a series of images followed by videos
the generator http://youtu.be/W1rp41R5FY8
the wind turbine during manufacture with start-up test in near zero wind http://youtu.be/Tnfj2fBwc7w
this is if you have opinions i'm listening :)
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bidouille23
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by bidouille23 » 24/02/13, 15:32

Hi and welcome here.

Nice construction ...

side opinion, after a lot of testing, I would say that making the core of the coil in the shape of the magnet is more effective.
In your triangular shape of coil the top is wider than the magnet and the bottom is the same width of the magnet is a little smaller ...

Therefore you are not going to have a change + - at the same time between the top of the reel and the bottom of the reel ... explain to you all that follows I do not prefer I will say bullshit;), I leave place for experts;) ....

By cons what I'm sure is that it is in your best interest to check your balance so that everything does not bump and fall, plan an emergency stop system suddenly, anything that you will stop the machine in case ... it will be safer ...

Finally, when empty, there is always a production, but charging on a battery changes everything, with a bulb as charge.
the bulb regulates; with a battery depending on its state it does not regulate and pumps what it needs (I'm waiting for a clearer explanation from the specialists, another liver;)), but basically the more your battery will be empty the more it will require "current" therefore the greater your resistant torque will be on the generator ... therefore the more torque provided by the blades ...

there is a balance to be found between blade play and generator ...

Finally personal the big problem that I see with the vertical axes, it is their low efficiency (0.3 to the max), and the weight that this represents on the mast to get the stable winds "not to say by abuse of language" laminar "...

but in any case it is a beautiful start which turns and produces, even if it produces can i produces;), and it was you who did it ...
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jsdu19
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Registration: 20/02/13, 09:40
Location: France




by jsdu19 » 24/02/13, 16:10

hi hack and thank you for your comment, before presenting this winding I had the experience on a very small model as you advise me but I found that the yield was roughly identical, doing like that is more simple to hold between my 2 aluminum omega without having to use resin, otherwise yes I will see what I need to improve on the structure of the wind turbine, I am not in pieces I have all the time to see coming possible problems :)
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bidouille23
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by bidouille23 » 24/02/13, 19:04

re,

your 2 aluminum omega ... I didn't even tilt when I saw that, I knew there was something that caught my eye (two in fact;))

The first one that I find good is the absence of resin for cooling reasons ...

The second is more of a problem, aluminum is precisely conductive, I can't say, but I think there will be more losses and probably a stronger torque higher than it should be.

The small streams make the big rivers;) ... all the small losses put end to end come to seal your final yield, to hunt them as much as possible with the tools of an amateur is still part of the game;) ( don't see any pejorative term, for me amateur it's someone who likes :) but who does not have the means of a pro;) ... but who would like ...).

You're right takes your time, there's no point in running like we said;) ...
The whole thing is to learn, to please, and in addition if its works well then ... :) bingo ... you can jubilee bluntly;) ...

A little question what are the black pieces on your generator rotr?

What about your hardware? if stainless steel beware of electrolysis ... especially if you live not far from the sea with a saline atmosphere ...
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jsdu19
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by jsdu19 » 24/02/13, 20:27

well i don't know too much about the eddy currents ... all the aluminum is isolated with akiline from simple vealine if you prefer, it's very effective, the spacers between the magnets are steel that I tapped like that you have no glue to put on the magnets and theoretically it increases the magnetic field, well the top will be to have a digital milling machine ..., otherwise all the hardware is scrap :)
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bidouille23
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by bidouille23 » 24/02/13, 22:06

re,

veraline that is to say? wax ?? glazier ?? it is not by conduction but magnetism that this happens, and even with a layer of insulator of this type I think that you risk a heating effect on your aluminum loop ... just put an aluminum disc in place and place the wound stator and you will see that you are going to heat it;) ...
who say heating say losses ... now it's simple to check by turning the beast and see if there is a rise in temperature of the strapping ...

for aluminum discs as a rotor, I have a doubt I seem to remember that on http://otherpower.com/otherpower_wind.html it does not recommend rotors other than scrap, but I can not say it, it seems to me therefore;) ... but precisely for the magnetic looping side which must be done by the back of the magnet since the poles are oriented north south by face ...
this in order to close the magnetic field lines, and basically get a nice sinusoid (it's an image) if you imagine the magnetic fields of your rotor seen on the edge ...


here wish I found;):

http://otherpower.com/otherpower_wind_tips.html

Magnetic Circuit - Picture a magnet to be almost like a battery. The lines of force from a magnet are said to originate at one pole and return to the other, just like a battery. Air is a poor conductor, both for electricity and for magnetic lines of force. In order to make best use of a magnet (and our copper wire) in an alternator, we need to have the strongest possible magnetic field. Just like copper is a good conductor of electricity, steel is a good conductor of magnetic fields. A good magnetic circuit involves steel between the poles with a gap (the airgap) where we need to use the field. In an alternator, our wires should occupy the airgap, it should be no wider than necessary, and every other part of the magnetic circuit should be of steel. We can either use steel laminates (laminated steel reduces eddy currents) or we can have magnets on each side of the coil (s) moving together with steel behind them. Again, look at our various wind turbine experiments to see. It should be said that some of them, like the wooden alternator and the all wooden windmill have very poor magnetic circuits.


on the other hand you can try to put your pieces of metal in the heart of the coils;) .... lapar against that will cogger but, you will also have a theoretical gain ... tests if it is not already done of course. ..

It's crazy but you're going to realize that all your bolts deflect the magnetic fields and cause losses too ...
full of small losses, which accumulate ... but I quibble I remember;) ...

you asked for an opinion: my opinion it is hunting small losses for your alternator;) ...

And pay attention to the balancing, did you try to rotate the blades with a motor to see their behavior when it turns a little fast? or are you empty in the wind?

and finally if you want I can provide you with the profile of vertical wind turbine blades, I get it on a blade that decided to go on an adventure alone without its wind turbine;) ... I can photocopy it for example (then you can reduce or enlarge it as needed;)) ...
The right blades are quite simple to do, it's always the same profile that you cut;), right leading edge etc etc ... it's right what lol ...
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jsdu19
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by jsdu19 » 24/02/13, 23:26

veraline is cheap metal varnish which contains akilein it is used (akilein) in industry to insulate thermally, against fungi and electrically the coils, there are better quality coatings, so I think that here for a system that runs at no more than 300 come on let's be crazy 400 rpm this is enough here, I even keep the ventilation at the back of the gear in case the rotors are fully in scrap except the 2 aluminum fixing cylinders, I have not yet noticed the slightest heating ... for the blades it's not complicated, flat you're sure to have maximum lift and force, too bad for aerodynamic aesthetics, yes I made the blades turn with a garden blower, there is no problem, just a vibration when starting, or the usefulness of putting a central reinforcement on each "blade". I know the otherpower article, it is sure that filled with metal or magnetite maybe the strator would be better on the air it is poor but hey for lack of better I do with :)
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bidouille23
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by bidouille23 » 27/02/13, 12:56

Okay i answer :) ...

If it works well as you say why want to rewind ??? ;)

if everything is perfect why come here to ask for advice?

and if everything is functional nickel then I want measurements with corresponding number of turns, empty and with charge (battery in charge and not bulb :) ) ...

If everything is perfect all the better, if not say, you follow me;) ...

you are proud of your achievement this is normal, the to say that it is nickel, do not push same in nettles either;) ... especially with just two image and two film or in the end have seen nothing ...

When your blades, if you think that the profile of a flat sheet is perfect then indeed it is perfect, just a question in your opinion when your wind turbine turns is there a horizontal thrust in opposition on the upper surface of the pale going upwind :) ?

If not then ask yourself why all wind turbines even with vertical axis have calculated profiles and not flat sheets :) , there is as if to say a notion of speed, acceleration and lift that should not be overlooked.

Finally a wind turbine is a homogeneous system (in theory), that is to say that it is not just an assembly of blade and a generator ... if by chance your wind turbine produces but that at some point the wind makes it really well turned, and that the generator does not soot any more so that the magnetic brake exerted by the force against electromotive, come to be exceeded, said that the rotor with blades is no longer held by the generator, if you do not have a brake or safety system, and bine pray that it will hold, because the wind turbine will accelerate as you have never seen it, and if by chance you have a defect in balancing and well the attention there could be injured ...

Now why am I telling you this:

If you want answers or help, you have to start by giving details of real production (I'm also becoming aware of this :) , if we want an efficient exchange, we must set an example, especially when we are new on a forum ...

This does not take anything away from your construction, nor from the fact that you did it with salvage, or that you learned a lot of things to do this ...


On the other hand I think that vertical wind turbines are a waste of time and energy especially if they are approximate ...

Their Cp is 0.3 at the max, where a horizontal axis will be at max 0.7 (cp = coefficient of performance) ... Look at the "pro" achievements and see their production close to nothing or close to danger sometimes ...

Balance sheet ???? What can I say except that it is ongoing :) , please yourself and if possible give measures ...
you can make a table with production of the generator according to the speeds of rotation, when empty and under load, with suddenly a calculation of the resistant torque which will allow you to calculate a wing which should correspond best to your wind rotor ...

If everything was in agreement you would not need to re-wind, moreover by re-winding with a larger line diameter you will lose the number of turns of the wire so the tension at low speed etc etc .. .

Bon ben I leave you and I hope to see news pure give me completely wrong I would be delighted and thrilled ... :)
and you would be rich :) , very rich in fact, because with three pieces of scrap metal succeeding there or else have put millions to develop high tech machines that have trouble functioning properly ... it is wealth guaranteed;) ....
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jsdu19
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by jsdu19 » 27/02/13, 20:50

when i say it's nickel, i should rather say it works, it's my way of saying that i am satisfied with the result with the little that i use, i am realistic i suspect that little do much better that's why I signed up here, it's for suggestions advice ect ..., but I'm listening to you! everything you say does not fall on deaf ears, I perfectly understood that the aluminum around copper was not the best and more. I do not yet have a battery in charge for make the power curves so I thought that the video of the generator could have given an idea of ​​the power, I only have a multimeter ... for the winding I know that the voltage will drop, but I am stubborn it is necessary that I am trying, I have already prepared my copper, Image , if that doesn't work I will reset the first winding. for your question on the air at the back of the blades I didn't understand, I have a draft at the back when they spin, Image , otherwise it's just a hobby I don't pretend to make a business out of it or walk on the pros' borders, but don't believe if I'm fully satisfied I'll tackle something in style spiral with profile of aircraft wings :) Image
if I do vertical, it is that I am a tenant so I cannot do what I want on the ground ..., it will remain at ground level or more surely fixed to the balcony
I am sorry for the video quality I only have an old vhs
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bidouille23
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by bidouille23 » 28/02/13, 00:02

re, there's no problem jsdu, I'm not asking you to listen to me :) ;) ...

no i'm just trying to put you on the track of an effective formulation so that you are a maximum of answers and help.

look, the number of views of your subject (307), and I am the only one to answer ... (I took a long time to understand and accept that doing things with a maximum of technical details, and everything formatted in the most logical way possible, is the best way to show that you are motivated and suddenly to get help ...)
Then when we try to get back in communication with you does not respond immediately I know, otherwise why is what we would like to tell you anything seen that you know;)) ...
(I just took an electric shock to be able to say that but it was salutary this shock :) , those who know what I'm talking about should smile rightly;)).

Anyway try it out, don't stop or the idea is far from me :) , personal it is also in the trial and especially in the error that I understand :) ... I do not say that you make a mistake no no, writing and reading are two different things therefore mistrust during the formulations which can be understood in opposition to the original message.

Bobine does not take care of me especially, this is what I ask you and only what I ask you;) ...

for the rest I speak ..

Regarding the admissible power in the wire, what are you referring to?

here is not bad:

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

there is a report on which it is, in my opinion of amateur, interesting to deepen: Kv and Kt

I did not find anything else immediately it is in English but it is explicit:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=2NoOAAA ... ur&f=false

for your question on the air at the back of the blades I didn't understand, I have a draft at the back when they spin,


By that I say that the blade going upwind brakes the rotor, and therefore the acceleration will be limited, suddenly to have a usable production you need a generator that produces at very very low speed, and sufficient power .c is an aerodynamic story, and lambda ...

a small example of theoretical wind turbine calculation;)

http://eolienne.f4jr.org/eolienne_etude_theorique

after the tests that I did I finally understood that:

Either you opt for a diameter of trays (which supports the magnets) of large size

Either you opt for a multilayer winding

If you keep the magnet configuration on the plate in the axial direction (I don't hear all the magnet guidelines converging towards the center of the plate), the magnetic flux is also axial;) (necessarily it is a generator axial lol).

Otherwise you can put the horizontal magnet at the end of the disc (you make them rotate 90 ° and you put them close to the outer edge of the tray)

otherwise you can take a radial configuration

This in order to obtain the highest possible angular speed for the same number of revolutions. you follow me ?

from this speed follows, the speed of phase change in front of the coils. The current production will be a function of this phase change speed (but not only of course;)):

source:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_magn%C3%A9tique



otherwise it’s just a hobby I don’t pretend to make a business out of it or walk on the pros ’beds,
I did not talk about that reread my answer;) previous;) ... I was making a nuance comparison :) ...



but do not believe if I am fully satisfied I will tackle something in the spiral style with profile of aircraft wings :)


I believe nothing, I only hope;) ... I would say that in this case you are full of courage, but educate yourself a little more about this guy
machine and you will see that a Darrieus type wind turbine (you made a soapius) is very very hard to do, much more than a good old horizontal axis, which will always have a maximum cp of 0.7 where a vertical will cap 0.3

Cool source;):

http://badkiller.alex.pagesperso-orange.fr/Presentation_diff_eoliennes.htm


That said I understand why the choice of vertical and I respect it, even if in the end it is not econological, because for a greater expenditure of energy, you will not be able to develop more energy. you sink the result ...
Having said that, you need to know what you really want to do with your wind turbine to begin with, this is the basic fact.
if it is to light a led, a bulb, to make turn a motor or that I know ...

Good I believe that the sandwich is enough for tonight ..

Chatelot if you read me correct my errors please, or anyone for that matter who can explain to me if I said bullshit (but I think that I managed to be clear and app not to say bullshit bigger than me :) ) ...
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