Choose a hydraulic micro turbine: Pelton or propeller?

[izentrop]

Maybe for big machines energies-renewable / select-a-micro-turbine-hydraulic-pelton-or-a-helix-t14812-30.html # p305647

This design, which I already had a long time ago, is not terrible and imposes heavy work of civil engineering ...
Where did you see that the yield was 25%

According to the table:

Fall height under the turbine: 2,50 meters
Required water flow: 35 to 45 liters of water per second
Rated Power: 500 Watts

Take the worst case (highest hydraulic power): https://www.econologie.com/calculer-puis ... chute-eau/ gives a gross hydraulic power of 1100w

To draw 500W is not so bad it is 45% overall efficiency (turbine output = 60-70% and generating efficiency = 80-90% .. so it corresponds to 45% ...)

Yes but with 10 m drop, it gives 4.4 KW.

I had left the potential energy of 150 tons at 10 m = ~ 4 kWh. We fall to almost the same.

6 KWh in 24 h? The stream delivers 20 m³ / h?

[Christophe]

In this case, a well-optimized 200W turbine (hydraulic + elec) will produce more energy than an under-run 4KW turbine (not to mention the much heavier investment with the 4kW)

[lilian07]

Thank you for seeing and understanding that any system should fit into a field of profitability (self-build and forums allow this). If we do not lose too much money we are filled for the pleasure of achieving, the pleasure of approaching autonomy and the pleasure of building a system that thwarts the economy. Forcing to talk about investment otherwise all solutions are possible and nothing is imposed on us. Coming back to the Pelton, this is what I consider to be the simplest and easiest to make, small diameter pipe plus robust aluminum wheel directly connected to a high efficiency PMA alternator proven in the wind energy field ...
After 50% of yield gives me between 200 and 300 W as I said it is limit but one enters the feasible and it is already a beautiful continuous power.
Izentrop shows that a regulator does not cost anything, the injectors are 6 euros, the Pelton and its alternator (200) and the existing reserve and the PE pipe (40).
As said Christophe we can approach the max yield by fixing the injection section for the given wheel and the water intake height. With this power I can get a buffer of a few hours in potential and the stream gives enough to have a power average for at least 8 months per year (between 20 and 60 m3 / h) ....
It's limited but realistic ...
For Izentrop: 6 kwh / day, my calculation is based on a power of 0.3 kw * 24h .... small margin of error = 6 kwh is not negligible for an energy whose load factor is very high. ..if I add the economic system it is almost 1 euros / saving days .... I estimate that a profitability less than 2 years with the purchase of an injector inverter with margin on the factor of charge allows to be not bad.
The simplicity of the Pelton has always fascinated me, we can add injectors to optimize the whims of the flows of small streams ... are load factor is max when the solar is lacking.
It is a beautiful project on renewable energy that is one of the simplest to realize when there is a creek with significant elevation ...

[izentrop]

Hello,
Since you already have the hose, the pelton is the most suitable indeed.

In this case, a well-optimized 200W turbine (hydraulic + elec) will produce more energy than an under-run 4KW turbine (not to mention the much heavier investment with the 4kW)

For a permanent magnet generator, the maximum power is proportional to the speed of rotation http://www.alxion.com/wp-content/upload ... 0/82fr.pdf

This power to be optimal must match that of the hydraulic power rating X overall efficiency and must be consumed entirely by use, otherwise the yield collapses and it is wasted.

That's why for small powers, the easiest way is to charge a battery.

If the rated power is 300 W, it will be better if it is under 15V / 20A, because if you get 30 V and 10 A, the battery will be loaded to 10 A, or you will have to add a MPPT to compensate.

For 20A, provide a battery of at least 200 Ah (c / 10). http://www.legallou.com/Modelisme-Tech/ ... /Info.html
The circuit that I proposed cuts the arrival of water charged battery. A current sensor can also monitor the load and if we see that at the end of charging, the current decreases, we can decide to stop the load earlier, 13.2 V example is very good too. By adjusting the opening angle of the servo motor, it is also possible to regulate the flow

In fact if you want to get 6kWh / day, it will be necessary to provide a little more battery or store otherwise, hot water balloon is the simplest.

[chatelot16]

with a peleton the yield is maximum when it turns at half the speed of the jet: the yield curve is a parabola, so the top and well rounded so we can deviate from this maximum without much loss ... so we can calculate its turbine to make directly 50hz

if we use an asynchronous motor there is no need for an injector injector we plug the engine and open the water injector ... more we open more power increases

an asynchronous motor is the simplest way to inject into the network without any problem of anti-island security: an asynchronous motor is unable to supply an isolated network

but I find it sad to only have the possibility of injecting into the network so I prefer a real alternator which makes it possible to make autonomous electricity on the day when it is needed and which does not prohibit injecting into the network. the network also: the old solution of the old electric factory: there are some lamps connected between the network and the output of the alternator ... the speed is regulated by the mechanical regulator of the turbine: when the speed is close enough to the 50Hz the lamps flash slowly: there is one of the lamps which goes out when it is in phase: we plug into the network at the right time, and it is synchronized, and we change the regulator: the function of regulator n it is more to regulate the speed since it is fixed by the network: the new function of the regulator is to choose the power which one wants to inject

similarly for the regulator nde voltage of the alternator, it is necessary to change of function: in autonomous the regulator must regulate the tension ... in injection there is more to regulate the tension since it is fixed by the network, it is necessary to control the exitation of the alternator to choose the cos phi of the current injected

[izentrop]

it's not in the same power domain.

[lilian07]

Well I see a storage 200Ah 12V 20 pipe 25mm diameter 300W 8H (storage 4h basin and 6.5h total battery 0.6 Kwh for a yield of XNUMX) with injector inverter with control valves on battery charge.

[chatelot16]

I do not understand why put a battery for an injector inverter

a lead-acid battery has a price and a limited cycle number: it gives a price of the kwh stored in the same order as the electricity price of EDF ... so inject into the EDF network via a battery is to use the battery in pure loss

when we have a water reservoir we can turn when we want and avoid passge by a battery

there are even some who pump water for storage!

[lilian07]

Yes it is true it is an aberration in the absence of knowledge of the use. it was to increase the autonomy to 24h / 24h including the ECS (hydrodynamic) because it allows me to exceed the maximum power of the Pelton while having a faster response time but it remains to see some adjustment including on the intelligent all or nothing management of the inverter and the valve.

[izentrop]

@Chatelot16, we spoke of small flow and low budget. To ensure normal operation directly in 240 V, it takes at least 1 to 2 kW of power. Do you have an example of an installation of which you speak?
There's the CJ-300W, it is minimum 12 m of fall, with a pipe diameter of 50. We talk about it here energies-renewable / energy-hydraulic-choose-a-small-turbine-t7303.html