A hydrogen boat? WHY NOT

[Wind Howler]

Hello,
My apologies for the inversion of the initials: passing from French abbreviations to British and vice-versa, I sometimes mix ...
If I am not sent to the other side of the ocean, I will gladly stop by in the next few months to see the "project" (as the Americans say). Everything that is done outside of the routine interests me a lot.
A wind turbine of 4m in diameter is at least fair: that of the "Bois Rosè", an open boat, light and very tapered, fast according to the standards of the time, was a two-bladed propeller with variable pitch of 9 meters, of aeronautical origin, in direct drive, via conical pinions, on the propeller shaft. The only energy losses came from friction on the gears: there was only one level of energy transformation.
During preparations for the invasion of England, Napoleon's engineers had imagined ships propelled by powerful windmills, inspired by Dutch wooden windmills, to go up the wind which stubbornly blew from England to Holland. (Present-day Belgium and Holland) and thus gave the decisive tactical advantage of the "upwind" position to British ships. The testing of this highly intellectual formula ended in drastic failure, and sailing continued to be used until the age of steam and even during: the considerable fleets of fishing and commercial sailing ships under sail. pure were devastated during the war of 1914-1918, not being able to flee or dodge the motorized ships - submarines and corsair steamers - which picked them by hand and "to the economy" by going to put in the holds of scuttling charges (torpedoes or shells were reserved for larger, armed, or fast prey).
Modern sails are by far the best transformer of natural energy for propulsion. Unexpectedly, old formulas: the Arabian sail, the lateen sail and the sprit sail have a performance quite "up to par"; their problem is handling, not obvious, and the angle of upwind.
I tried the HVP on a car (Peugeot 405 turbo-Diesel) which was already running on this fuel. Fueled with "eco-plus" Leclerc rapeseed oil - for the cost. The results were disappointing: "holes" in acceleration, loss of performance, irregular engine rotation. Returned to standard diesel, these symptoms ceased, and the contents of the remaining bottles ended up in the salad. I prefer to drive less (while waiting for the advent of the "Cleanova"), but with an engine that runs correctly. And then using the land (see also "grain fuel") which is practically the only large-scale food source to power machinery is questionable. In certain circumstances, we have produced "petroleum butter". Now petroleum tends to be scarce. For millennia, humanity has done without food, no. [/ Img]

[Chatham]

Unexpectedly, old formulas: the Arabian sail, the lateen sail and the sprit sail have a performance quite "up to par"; their problem is handling, not obvious, and the angle of upwind.

Indeed, in particular the Latin sail has an excellent yield, even upwind, but it is very delicate to handle since it is necessary to pass the sail in front of the mast and tilt the antenna to change edge ...
The Bermudian sail (very high masts inclined backwards, sails fixed to the mast by a twisting of rope, quite close to the sails we know today, has a very good performance including upwind (some modern "romantic" sailboats still use it) ... However, in terms of power (for heavy boats), the best remains the gaff rig, unfortunately a little tricky to handle (requires a lot of know-how) and not very effective close hauled , however I was astonished one day on the Brest side when I saw an old Breton fishing boat upwind as quickly in distance as modern sailboats which certainly squeezed the wind much closer but relatively slowly, while the Breton sailboat was spinning, at a more comfortable pace, but with incredible speed and power (there was choppy water and a good wind force 4 to 5 that day ...): not so surprising after all, because at the end of the day the first come won the best pr ix, therefore the fishing boats did not drag too much ... but it also needed power to pull the nets: well here is the solution: from now on, fishing will be done again by sail, so more than fuel problem (except perhaps for the fridge) and no more overfishing problems either because with a sailboat we are not going to shoot pelagic nets ... There is just the price of the fish which is likely to take a slap ...

[Wind Howler]

Bernard Moitessier traveled around the world with only the energy of the wind.
and now modern sails have made more progress in 50 years than in all sailing history before, thanks to advances in aerodynamics, materials (again oil!) and ... the board sailing. Fuller at the top, less bridled at the bottom, and even almost perfectly along the mast when the latter is flexible and without shrouds (there was a 3 mast schooner from the Withbread and a Vendée globe cutter rigged in this way.) , they manage to eliminate the energy losses due to the Vortex and the flattening of the profile along the mast and the boom (up to 1/3 of the surface used to produce drag, that is to say - say the power used to produce braking and the list and rudder component.) This is why modern sails tend to accommodate a strong batten at the top bringing them closer to a horn sail or Dutch "mini-horn" sails, without the weight and therefore the inertia thereof. A few years ago, I began to practice windsurfing to physically feel the work of this type of sail, especially in the brutal oversold. I also rigged a dinghy with a windsurf sail, including with the flexible unguided mast and the boom; the experience is convincing. The flexible mast which is not held in place by a standing rigging gives way under the gust of wind, and its flexibility means that when it straightens it gives back, as it were, part of the energy that made it give way - like a spring - sort of like the wings of a modern glider do. This results in additional energy recovery, and more comfort on board due to less brutal movements. In fact, James Wharram himself got into it, and designed for some of his catamarans, including the largest, high aspect ratio sails terminated in a "mini-horn", which combine good performance with maneuverability. appreciable ... (However, its masts are guyed: it seems impossible to install a mast without guy lines on a catamaran)
There is no doubt that modern sails, well rigged and well tuned (which is not difficult, except obviously in a high level regatta), are the best transformer of sustainable and free energy on a ship when there is wind - when there is none, no wind turbine or tidal turbine produces any Kilowatt of course, and the stored electricity does not go far, unless you have submarine batteries! . In addition, the canopy allows you to play on the static or dynamic balance of the sailboat, which is a significant help in maneuvering. Another advantage of sails: their size and reasonable weight when you need to "store" them in port, at anchor, or for repair or maintenance: good furlers, "lazy-jacks" or a furling bag where the sail falls and is almost stowed away by itself, and the deck is already almost clean.

[Chatham]

Wharam installed non-guyed masts on one of its catas (I don't remember the type anymore), but they were parallel mats (one in each hull) ...
The non-guyed masts are indeed interesting, moreover I envision this type of rigging for my future sailboat, in cat-schooner, but with boomed sails because the windsurf-type whiskey is not very famous in strong wind (they tend to open under the pressure of the wind and the sail becomes hollow) and reduction of surface not easy ...

Something that intrigues me because I have not seen closely the rigging of large mainsail boats at the top with a pseudo-horn batten: it is a Bergström type rigging? (without backstay)

[mars66]

HELLO EVERYONE?
I just read the whole discussion about the "KENDERV" engine and apparently more news. Is that someone or this is ???

Have a good day

[mars66]

[mars66]

I know, I know, not gifted, I am but hey now some will be able to make this an idea and that allows to give a meaning to this boat
A+
Mars66

[Capt_Maloche]

AAHH!

I am not a connoisseur, but beautiful beast, there is living space to develop!

I see a mast at the front on which a spinnaker could be adapted, see a winch with kite?

Sure that wind power is the greenest and the most efficient
Maneuvers in port with the engine (s)

for comparison I looked at what was equipped with an 11m sailboat

"Case by Case"
Praetorian, Wauquier shipyard
currently at Marin, Martinique
price: 65.000 €


1. Hull

Praetorian of the Waucquiez shipyard, architect: Holman & Pye
- Year of construction 1979 (polyester of the time without osmosis problems)
- Length 10,80m + rear skirt 0,50m (new floor in 2006)
- Width (bau) 3,60 m
- Draft 2 m
- Displacement: 6,5 t including 3 t of lead ballast
- Gross tonnage 12,57.
- All through-hull valves, including cockpit, were replaced in 2004
- All plexiglass and seals on hoods and portholes have been replaced (2001 to 2005), including door, except down cover

2. Rigging and sails

- Kemp mast 14,70 m
- Profurl genoa furler,
- Pole, jockey pole
- 1 mainsail of 25 m² (with 3 reefs, + reefs, and 4 slats)
- genoa of 47 m² rollable (2000) (with sun protection strip 2001)
- 1 tourmentin (snap hooks), 1 medium genoa
- 1 spinnaker of 110 m²
- 1 dilapidated asymmetric spinnaker
- Sheets changed in 2005 (hoist listening to SG currently degregated)
- Guy lines changed in 2005
- Radar reflector
- Spinnaker arm, reel hump, reef bumps (3 to post), spare sheets, pulleys, ...
- Hoists for bastaques
- Winch handles (including one 2005)

25 m² mainsail for 6.5 tonnes
if your cattle are in the 40 t, how many sails? at least 100m² ... the size of a spinnaker

[Targol]

Well, there it is clearer with a photo.
Seeing the hull, we understand that this type of boat is absolutely not intended for sailing. There must be a glaring lack of anti drift surfaces.

As much, as Capt_Maloche suggests, you can consider a kite on the forward mast, as much as this kite should be limited to the bearing winds to avoid too much drift.

But hey, let's face it: this type of boat is primarily intended to have an engine and a propeller as the main means of propulsion.

To see it like that, I would say that the most ecological solution to do it would be a combination of a Kit HVB and a pantone.
Basically, stay on a heat engine (I assume that the boat is equipped with marine diesel) but optimize it and run it on renewable fuel.

[Chatham]

Well, there it is clearer with a photo.
Seeing the hull, we understand that this type of boat is absolutely not intended for sailing. There must be a glaring lack of anti drift surfaces.

As much, as Capt_Maloche suggests, you can consider a kite on the forward mast, as much as this kite should be limited to the bearing winds to avoid too much drift.

But hey, let's face it: this type of boat is primarily intended to have an engine and a propeller as the main means of propulsion.

To see it like that, I would say that the most ecological solution to do it would be a combination of a Kit HVB and a pantone.
Basically, stay on a heat engine (I assume that the boat is equipped with marine diesel) but optimize it and run it on renewable fuel.

Indeed, this boat is exactly the opposite of what it takes to advance under sail ... can only sail with the engine, and probably very slow with the wind and the sea in the nose with such a weak motorization ... we would have had to stick 2 500hp engines to it to be usable other than to lug tourists around in good weather ...