Heat pump under parking

[elephant]

Do you think that placing a heat pump's collection pipe under the asphalt of a car park (eg a company) is a good idea?

Certainly, there is a limit: the ice storm, but it may be better than under a lawn, right?

[Paul]

Hello,
Yes very good idea! dailleur, I think they are not doing the experince earlier,
because even if there may be ice, the system is buried so should not freeze. except extreme temperature, but it's the same under grass.

[elephant]

We could also avoid putting the tubes in the aisles.

[dedeleco]

The roots of plants suffer less from variations in temperature, because under a parking lot there are few.
A heat pump in the winter cools the floor and therefore the pipes can freeze in depth if the heat pump requires too much heat under the car park, even if outside it does not freeze

One way to improve efficiency is to preheat in summer by simple solar thermal sensors (even cheap unpretentious). Under a car park without roots, it is possible to heat strongly at 50 ° C (not under garden plants that will see their roots die) and then we have a system for storing summer heat for the winter (as at www.dlsc.ca ), relayed by the heat pump when this heat is exhausted.

https://www.econologie.com/forums/chaleur-d- ... 10828.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/stockage-d ... 10173.html

Any pseudo geothermal heat pump with Canadian well-type exchanger can be converted to summer solar heat storage for winter with better output, because it is possible to heat the earth much more (at 50 at 60 ° C or starting from 15 ° C over 35 ° C at 45 ° C more, while the heat pump can only cool with 15 ° C (from 15 ° C to 0 ° C) before freezing the soil, which makes preheating more than 3 to 4 + 1 = 5 times more heat stored and recovered with the same installation underground or under parking, and therefore the efficiency of the heat pump is the COP multiplied by this factor, amounting to 10 to 15 thanks to the preheating recovering the solar heat wasted in summer !!)

It is fundamental to perpetual operation, without pollution, without CO2 and even almost without a heat pump if the well is sufficiently sized.
The heat pump becomes just a heating security !!!

The interest of the parking is then cut off rainwater seepage that make the heat go away and who In winter, in addition, cold water is introduced at 0 ° C in winter with snow which cool the earth and reduce the efficiency of the heat pump even without preheating in summer.

[elephant]

I mainly saw the interest

- dark color
- no risk to the vegetation.
- the modest price of additional earthworks
- the supermarket

[dedeleco]

The dark color absorbs more solar heat especially in summer, (simple solar collector) and with a heat exchanger on the surface which sends its heat deep under the carpark or the road then cooled thus, where one stores this heat for the winter which makes it possible to heat this bitumen of road (or parking) to USA to remove frost and ice on the road for free, in the USA with a huge thermal contrast between summer (37 ° C and bitumen at 50 ° C and above) and -30 ° C in winter, very favorable to this ecological antifreeze solution without salt and CO2 and pollution to heat this slippery road if not in winter, this without any heat pump !!

See on google seasonal heating or thermal store or seasonal store or soil solar thermal storage
etc ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_thermal_store

The big surface of bitumen is wasted as the solar heat of the summer !!!

In my opinion there is a future market in France for this type of maximum ecological heating solution, once demonstrated functional on real French examples, with even at the beginning a heat pump of relief thus yielding enormous.
After real examples that work, this market will explode quickly, especially since it is delayed by the current misunderstanding based on bad habits.
There is the possibility of progressive price realization and increasing complexity, such as a parking space exchanger that stores the summer heat of this simple bitumen solar collector for the winter for the neighboring houses (or antifreeze of the road). heat pump consuming much less, depending on the size of the underground heat exchanger, often undersized for geothermal heat pumps currently carried out !!!

You can even drill under the bitumen without demolishing it, with holes and pipes of small diameters like Uretek, geaosec and others to straighten soft ground under foundations of sagging houses !!!

Free ideas to use for enterprising young people !!

[Did67]

Warning: under a tarmac, the earth will be dry, therefore much much less good conductor ... The performance of your system will suffer. The CAP will have much more difficulty "milking" the calories on a large dimension ...

Except, of course, “ecological” parking on grassed slatted floors (concrete or plastic) which allow water to enter (often compulsory in Germany to relieve rainwater networks). But there, more heat related to a black surface ...

Definitely, difficult to have only advantages over this poor land ...

[elephant]

I had not seen your new avatar yet, Did! Awesome ! I am a fan of shadocks.

[dedeleco]

Did67 is not convinced and leaves real objections, without considering the means to solve these problems, as good drainage.
The conductivity of the earth does not change a huge 10 or 100 factor with its humidity, and it can be kept a bit damp without significant water flow that cools, and so solutions exist for these problems.

The black surface can be insulated with a costal insulation layer underneath (solar bitumen sensor) and the rainwater drained to infiltrate deeper below the portion of soil used for storage and sensors.
There are solutions taking into account the different difficulties, which vary according to the local geology.
The conductivity of variable soils, much more massive rock (limestone or granite leads far more than plain arable plain of humus even wet) sets the length of tubes needed, often too low for geothermal heat pump (simple calculation of thermal capacity cooled soil).

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperatur ... %A4higkeit
Well wet / dry sand goes from 0,27 to 0,58 W / m ° C only much less than between arable soil with humus and granite or marble !!

[Did67]

Well wet / dry sand goes from 0,27 to 0,58 W / m ° C only much less than between arable soil with humus and granite or marble !!

Certainly...

but:

1) The ground you do not choose it. And the objective here was not to replace everything ... it was not the goal since it was a question of "taking advantage" of the parking works ...

2) so for the same soil, it seems to vary from single to double depending on whether it is dry or wet ... So it means that under the tarmac, it is necessary ... doubling the coils or so the performance of the CAP will collapse!

Not being convinced at all of PAC, even if a soil / water is less than air / water or air / air, I do not seek a solution! I'm just saying, friendly, careful: streamers under the tarmac = false good idea, without any other form of lawsuit.

Or, you have to solve a certain number of problems, which I leave to you. Of no interest to me. So it will "seal" the project.