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Christophe
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by Christophe » 06/05/09, 22:47

Alain G wrote:To be a little perfectionist, the thing to improve on this turbine would be the integration of the generator
inside the rotor (turbine) and thus use the full width of the "buckets" between the floats.

(...)

Go go get to work and put in your "buckets", we all can't wait to see the results.


1) I don't really understand the first idea how it would improve things? Could you make a diagram for us?

2) I used a maximum of possible width, it rubs even a little there (will have to improve all that). See photo.

3) For the job, it's already done, the proof in photos!

The hardest and longest was to disassemble the pallets ... crap nails!

Image
Image
Image

All that remains is to put 1 inclined slat per blade (I can vary the inclination if necessary for tests?). I will also probably put a reinforcement "strapping" close to the circumference.

Yep I did the BOURIN (jve 300W! :D) and I think it's COSTAUD !! Small flat: I "screwed" everything we see how it holds after the first months in the water. If necessary I would bolt with threaded rods or long bolt. There are 1 main bolts that hold each bucket to the drum.

I hope it will float again because it has damn gained weight there ... I had not planned to make such heavy blades ... We will see the waterline.

In any case, I no longer think I need to increase the inertia of the wheel.
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Alain G
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by Alain G » 07/05/09, 00:53

Good evening Christophe

Good work!

Maybe a little heavy for existing floats, but you will see once in the water.

Alain G wrote:
To be a little perfectionist, the thing to improve on this turbine would be the integration of the generator
inside the rotor (turbine) and thus use the full width of the "buckets" between the floats.

Sorry, it was for the Maguysama turbine and not for yours.
:D
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boubka
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by boubka » 07/05/09, 07:47

hello christophe
I don't want to play the ominous bird but with the same load and the cantilever the drum bearings will not last long
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by Christophe » 07/05/09, 09:51

boubka I thought about it and rethought it but according to you, 5 kg of wet laundry in spin mode it represents what "unbalance" therefore what effort on the bearing (which is more of a bearing given its length)?

Much more I think that what the mass of the blades and the 300W torque will never have ... the calculation does not even need to be done but if you want to make an estimate I will :)

Everything is here:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balourd
http://www.equilibrage-industriel.com/calcul.php

What I fear more is the resistance over time: what resistance to frost? After 20 hours of operation? Especially since it already has a few thousand hours of operation ... We will see!

Only "advantage": its speed of rotation will be reduced to around 100 RPM ... and always in the same direction ...
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by Christophe » 07/05/09, 09:58

Well I have just calculated the unbalance of: 10 kg of wet laundry so the center of "gravity" is 15 cm from the axis of rotation in spin mode at 1000 rpm.

According to wiki we therefore have as a maximum unbalance (by removing the "sin Wt"):

F=m*R*W²

m=10kg
R = 0.15 m
W = 1000/60 * 2 * pi = 105 Rad / s

F = 10 * 0.15 * 105² = 16 Newtons !! : Shock:

Ben thin! Does that mean that the bearing would resist 1.6 Tons?
See I thought it was high but not that high. Or are my assumptions too "optimistic"?

We could obtain this force by "analyzing" the springs which hold the cage + drum also ...
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by tigrou_838 » 07/05/09, 11:50

Hello everyone,

wooooowww Christophe is a professional job.

in addition you can even lengthen the blades with your pieces of wood.

hat for the job, I can't wait to see it all spinning and continuously supplying 24/24 7/7 365/365 the 300 or 400 watts.

and even in the event of frost, if the wheel is still spinning, there should be no problem.

tigrou : Mrgreen:
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boubka
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by boubka » 07/05/09, 13:40

without just calculation by experience
to know that the bearings of a standard machine which turns every day approximately 1 hour lasts maximum 5 years
i.e. 365x5 = 1825 hours
the springs or cylinders limit the transfer of load from to unbalance

in your case by almost doubling the length of the drum and considering the lever arm (in occasional bearings) I would say that you can divide this time by three either 1825/3 = 608 hours or 25 days 24 / 24h

the machine bearings are in my opinion undersized (6204)

maybe i'm wrong but i don't think so.
we will talk about it in a month after the launch ....
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by gegyx » 07/05/09, 14:09

You're right, but will there be so much unbalance as that?

Already, horizontal loading machines often weigh 7,5 Kg.

The boards will be partly in the water, they will tend to become lighter, because they will want to float a little.
The push of the water making the drum rotate, it will tend to go up to escape the resistance of the water (I know, it's not clear! But I understand myself :D ).
So finally, by adjusting the floats more or less, we can achieve an average balance.
What worries me more is the torsion of the sheet metal of the tank where the bearing is attached which will work hard. The enamel risks to jump ...
----
For the life of the bearings, I confirm, even less than 5 years. (Well, I still have 2 x new BB40s, purchased € 35 + shipping)
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by Christophe » 07/05/09, 16:09

boubka wrote:without just calculation by experience


Precisely the calculation I did above ... I do not believe at all in your estimate because the efforts in a washing machine are bcp more important! The springs do not intervene bcp at this level because they are "after" in the kinematic chain ... they will absorb a little but not that much. But it's clear that without a spring I don't know how long it would last?

We'll see but if it doesn't last a month I'll put a torpedo directly on the boat! : Mrgreen: At least I would have had fun and we will have learned some tricks but hey it would be disappointing ...

It's in the water there ... photos that evening I go back!

Tigger I have not yet mounted the "main blades" because for testing it is useless, there is a centering defect on the crown that I have to review there: it does not turn "round" (the center distance is variable) and on 40 ° the chain is strongly tensioned and strongly relaxed afterwards.

In short not good at all !! In addition the stream is super low there (I see it drop every day) ... I do not think to exceed 100 to 150W in these conditions ...

ps: yes it floats!
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by Flytox » 07/05/09, 18:35

Bonjour Christophe

Christophe wrote:Precisely the calculation I did above ... I do not believe at all in your estimate because the efforts in a washing machine are bcp more important! The springs do not intervene bcp at this level because they are "after" in the kinematic chain ... they will absorb a little but not that much.


The unbalance that you estimated is too important. You forget that before starting the spinning, the programmer forces the drum to do one or more sequences of small "Forward" "Reverse" at low speed to recenter / distribute the laundry on the periphery of the drum. As a result, it is much less unbalanced than the weight of wet laundry and it can spin without cracking the partition with each spin : Mrgreen: .

ustly there is a centering defect on the crown that I have to review there: it does not turn "round" (the center distance is variable) and on 40 ° the chain is strongly stretched and greatly relaxed afterwards.


It often happens that the teeth are not concentric with the centering on the hub side, on the mob they don't care, there is a tensioner to catch up with the too wide tolerances of the machining.
You would have to measure this eccentricity, there are times when we can make up for this by sliding a tinsel between leather and flesh at the level of the centering / fixing, even if it means making slightly oblong holes in the fixing of the crown.

If your roll doesn't take the shock, don't scuttle the pretty ship. You have room to put a second bearing on the other side of the drum without it being so complicated ...
A+ :P
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