Understanding nuclear: reactions, radioactivity, waste

[Obamot]

A recent study of a population that naturally receives 200 mSV per year (!?!) At the end of the 2ieme part indicates the same trend: there could be a benefit to radiation for anti cancer genes ...

Radiotherapy is already known for a long time, right?

It's not exactly that, the radiation at certain doses, would block some effects by killing them in the bud. To tell the truth, still many doctors are reluctant even to make a single radio (when they make their assessment of the equation: Risk / beneficial effects VS negative effects)

Typical bikers who "manage the risk" saying it's not dangerous, nan?

In reality, there are other ways to manage it upstream, in terms of prevention, before reaching the healing effect, like horse treatment in firefighting medicine that extinguishes the fire!

Yes except that, from what I know (not much), radiotherapy is very targeted to sick cells isn't it? Radiation therapy does not affect the whole organism.

So what? How a complete exposure would offer some safety, even be beneficial not understand this logic! If "the dose makes the poison" it will add to what we have already accumulated. Bar point.

You have to say it and repeat it, we don't need to try to expose ourselves to rays "Because it would be beneficial", since we can achieve the same beneficial results Actually by other means having no contraindication.

It is essential to read this post, which takes into account the effects of low dose irradiation (but big effects!):
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post200418.html#200418

And tonight, watch TV5 Monde => Special Envoy on Fukushima at 21:00 p.m.!

[dedeleco]

It is also important to read this European scientific report on the effects of radiation especially the radioactive particles breathed in the lungs or eaten which remain for life to irradiate intensely the cells around which end up triggering all come out of diseases in particular cancer triggered by a single mutated cell and broken down by radiation.
http://www.euradcom.org/2011/ecrr2010.pdf
This dramatic effect is underestimated by a factor 500 to 2000 by the official nuclear organizations which reassure us and underestimate the dead in a criminal way !!!

We must also read the very large number of scientific studies indicated in this report European Committee on Radiation Risk in Sweden, which is only a summary highlighting the refusal to take account of this scientific work in very many different countries and which prove the radiation danger underestimated by this factor around 1000 !!

[dedeleco]

The recommendations of this report:
http://www.euradcom.org/2011/ecrr2010.pdf

15.2 Principles and Recommendations
1. The Committee has developed its modeling to allow assessment of the effects of radiation exposure for the purposes of policy and regulation.
2. The method involves the calculation of collective doses from different types of exposure and different sources to exposed groups and the calculation, by simple rules and coefficients, of the collective averaged health detriment.
3. The Committee believes that the model can also be used to approximate the effects of natural background radiation and for Technologically Enhanced Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials.
4. The Committee recommends that the total maximum allowable annual dose limit to members of the public involving releases of anthropogenic isotopes or natural isotopes delivered in a novel fashion should be kept below 0.1mSv as calculated using the ECRR model.
5. The Committee thus argues for a level of exposure much lower than the level recommended by ICRP and recognizes that most undertakings associated with releases of radioactivity to the environment would be severely curtailed by the adoption of such a recommendation. However, the Committee feels that this is an area where political decisions must be made based on accurate knowledge of the consequences of those decisions.
6. The Committee recommends that annual exposure limits for nuclear workers should be 2mSv. Nuclear workers must be made fully aware of the likely harm to them and their offspring.
7. The Committee endorses the principle of justification contained in radiation safety legislation but does not believe that such justification can be made on a utilitarian basis where the costs may be borne by some whilst the benefits increased to others: rather the rights of all individuals must be respected equally.
8. The Committee recommends that radiation exposures be kept as low as reasonably possible using best available technology.
9. The Committee recommends that all health deficits associated with exposure be included in any assessment of the policy implications of exposure and holds that the unborn should in this regard be considered as having equivalent rights to living people.
181
ECRR 2010
10. The Committee holds that environmental consequences of radioactive discharges including effects on all life forms be considered in assessing the overall deficit of any practice involving radiation exposure.
11. The Committee will continue to examine research on radiation exposure and health detriment and will adjust the models it has developed to reflect both radiobiological theory and observational epidemiology.
12. The Committee calls on all governments of the world to abandon the current ICRP based risk model as a matter of urgency and to substitute for it the ECRR2010 risk model.

[jlt22]

An interesting article

Nuclear power plants unsuited to democracy

The big difference between Fukushima and Chernobyl lies in the progress of the spirit of responsibility in Japanese society today. We must be aware of the consequences of this social progress: each error will be paid for, and the moral and financial bill will be very heavy. The Japanese Nation has not finished paying Fukushima.


In the continuous flow of information, this dispatch went virtually unnoticed: on March 24, the Japanese government spokesman admitted that the rotation of "firefighter" workers at the Fukushima power plant site is "not sufficient ". It is indeed difficult for Tepco and its subcontractors to find volunteers to replace these workers who risk their lives. In some villages, we would have offered 800 to 1500 euros to volunteers to participate in operations.

In democratic Japan at the start of the XNUMXst century, it would therefore be difficult to find enough personnel to sacrifice yourself: what a paradox in the land of the Kamikazes!

1. The army of Soviet liquidators

There are said to be around 500 people involved in the site rescue operations at the Fukushima plant. It is interesting to compare this figure with the dispatch in the weeks which followed the Chernobyl explosion of tens of thousands of "liquidators".

In the USSR, in 1986, these people did not hesitate to face very high doses, staying a few seconds or a few minutes at the scene of the operation, taking turns at very fast rates. It is estimated that the number of these liquidators, intervening on the Ukrainian site, between 1986 and 1992, oscillated between 600 and a million!

We can compare with the Japanese organization. It may be noted, for example, that after the accident in which two Japanese operators were seriously irradiated, human operations were immediately interrupted. The Soviets did not have this kind of scruples and did not hesitate to sacrifice their personnel, if that seemed necessary to them.

We can ask ourselves the question: if, since March 11, Tepco has not succeeded in solving the problem, is it not for lack of personnel? For fears - legitimate - not to expose too much the lives of its employees? By "precautionary principle" as we say in Europe? Obviously, the cost of human life is not the same.

2. Are nuclear risks compatible with democratic societies?

Are the Japanese of 2011 more compassionate than the Soviets of 1986? I do not think so. So where is the difference? Probably in the progress of the spirit of responsibility in Japanese society today.

Let’s not be naive. This sense of responsibility characterizes democratic societies because it will be necessary to pay when those responsible for the disasters have been identified, it will be necessary for the Nation, the State to assume its financial share in the "settlement" of the damage.

We can only welcome this progress, which we will seek in vain in autocratic societies. But we must be aware of the consequences of this social progress: a serious accident, a situation beyond control, an inconsiderate risk, an unfortunate decision; each error will be paid for, each decision will be a posteriori studied by the judges, each responsibility will have to be assumed.

However, in matters of nuclear accident, the bill, moral and financial, will be heavy, very heavy.

If Chernobyl has resulted in thousands of sterile square kilometers and cancer in quantities that are difficult to quantify, the recognition of responsibilities and the compensation are pending. It will be quite different in Fukushima.

In the coming decade, it will probably be necessary to pay compensation to owners displaced from the region, offer compensation to injured fishermen, reimburse the irradiated, examine all the responsibilities in the cancers of those exposed, pay heavy compensation to "liquidators" and their families, not to mention the costly decontamination of the site.

The Japanese Nation has not finished paying Fukushima.

3. The invisible cost of nuclear power for democratic societies

The philosopher Jean-Jacques Delfour, writes in Le Monde dated April 11 "Due to the fact that the State has always placed the nuclear power station outside the common law, the liberal principle of the privatization of profits and the publicization of losses amounts to being condemn them to inaction: in the event of a nuclear accident, citizens can manage or they turn to a State which, in "democracies" does not have at all the civil or military means for its industrial policy ".

Here we are at the heart of the problem: who will pay in the event of a serious accident? It is the whole Nation. I will be objected that it has taken full advantage of the "benefits" of nuclear power for decades. But, in an indebted society, we did not finance this risk, our electricity bills do not take it into account. The political and technocratic choices which validated nuclear power were taken on the backs of future victims who will pay twice: suffer the nuclear accident and then pay the damage.

We can compare with the American company: after Three Mile Island, in 1979, the insurance companies refused to assume the risk. The federal state refusing to assume it in turn, the construction of nuclear power plants stopped by itself!

Here we have reached the limit of democracy in France: the responsibility of nuclear scientists stops when it comes to preemptively financing nuclear risk.

When nuclear power goes well, appearances are saved and we have the misleading impression that our democratic world can live with it. But when the catastrophe occurs, the truth appears in its cruel reality: the nuclear monster becomes uncontrollable unless it opposes the totalitarian machine. Democracy is too fragile and subtle to be able to subdue the radioactive dragon. The Soviet hydra was able to defeat Chernobyl. But will the Japanese princess be able to stop the Fukushima dragon?

Rcoutoly

Source:
http://lecercle.lesechos.fr/node/34564

But we could also parallel other industries which we do not know, or, we do not want to assess the cost of the disasters they cause.

[dedeleco]

Very exact this article presented by jlt22.
A concrete example that young Japanese people are no longer pure obedient Japanese people ready to become suicide bombers !!

Against those who flee in panic, it is necessary the military method type war of 14, to pass by the arms the fugitives who pactise with the enemy !!

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/19_27.html

Homeless personnel sent to nuclear zone flees in panic

A Japanese Ground Self-Defense Force member who'd been assigned to work near the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has been dismissed for fleeing in panic.

The Defense Ministry says the 32-year-old sergeant was sent from Tokyo to Koriyama city, in Fukushima Prefecture, 2 days after the March 11th earthquake and tsunami to help decontaminate local emergency shelters.

On the next day, he drove away without permission in one of his unit's trucks. He was later arrested by a Self-Defense Force police unit on suspicion of theft.

The sergeant has reportedly told investigators that fear of the nuclear accident made him panic. He was dismissed on disciplinary grounds on Tuesday.

The commander of the Ground Self-Defense Force's First Division, Yoshiaki Nakagawa, expressed regret at what happened while so many SDF personnel are working hard in the disaster zone. He pledged to tighten discipline and prevent a recurrence.

Tuesday, April 19, 2011 18:54 +0900 (JST)

Otherwise Areva makes its butter in Japan by decontaminating the radioactive water of its iodine and its cesium:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/19_33.html

French company to decontaminate Daiichi water

French nuclear reactor maker Areva says it has agreed with the Tokyo Electric Power Company to build a facility to decontaminate radioactive water at the compound of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

CEO Anne Lauvergeon told reporters in Tokyo on Tuesday that Areva - one of the world's largest nuclear energy firms - will build the facility to remove radioactive substances from the contaminated water.

The facility is to use chemical agents to remove radioactive iodine and cesium from contaminated water. The concentration of the radioactive substances is to be reduced to one-one thousandth to one-ten thousandth of the current level. A similar system is already in place in France.

Lauvergeon said it is most important to decontaminate the water at the plant, and that her company will try to do this in every possible way.

TEPCO told reporters on the same day that it has adopted Areva's proposal. The company says it will first transfer the contaminated water into a waste processing facility at the plant, and then decontaminate 1,200 tons of the water per day. It hopes to use decontaminated water to cool the reactors.

TEPCO hopes to start operating the decontamination facility in June.
Tuesday, April 19, 2011 21:47 +0900 (JST)

and there is work: more than 25000 tonnes, that is to say a dozen full Olympic pools and even 67500 tonnes !!
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/19_17.html

Transfer begins of highly contaminated water

The operator of the damaged Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has begun transferring highly radioactive water from the No.2 reactor to a waste processing facility.
Ahead of the operation, Tokyo Electric Power Company, known as TEPCO, sealed cracks in the walls of the facility and ensured that other measures were in place to prevent contaminated water from leaking.

After the government nuclear safety agency checked procedures and safety measures, TEPCO began the operation on Tuesday morning.
About 25,000 tons of highly contaminated water has accumulated in the basement of the turbine building and a tunnel connected to the No.2 reactor. The water must be moved quickly, as it could escape into the ocean.

TEPCO says it plans to move about 480 tons of the water a day and it will take about 26 days to move about 10,000 tons to the waste facility near the No.4 reactor.

The firm utility estimates that about 67,500 tons of radioactive water has accumulated at the plant.

With more water being pumped into the reactors to restore the cooling system, the quantity is expected to rise and further hamper operations to bring the crisis under control.
Tuesday, April 19, 2011 12:48 +0900 (JST)

[Obamot]

Joker: they're going to remove the radioactive substances from the water, ok. But to store them where?

Nuclear power plants unsuited to democracy
The big difference between Fukushima and Chernobyl lies in the progress of the spirit of responsibility in today's Japanese society. We must be aware of the consequences of this social progress: each error will be paid for, and the moral and financial bill will be very heavy. The Japanese Nation has not finished paying Fukushima.

It is quite clear, incompatible. Reason why we must stop the massacre! Or else all the pros-nuclear must sign a charter according to which they undertake to be on the list of liquidators in the event of a nuclear accident. Otherwise it would not make sense for these people to force others to undergo the irresponsibility of their decision in their flesh. It is from the very paradigm of the liberal world to make people responsible.

In the continuous flow of information, this dispatch went virtually unnoticed: on March 24, the Japanese government spokesman admitted that the rotation of "firefighter" workers at the Fukushima power plant site is "not sufficient ". It is indeed difficult for Tepco and its subcontractors to find volunteers to replace these workers who risk their lives. In some villages, we would have offered 800 to 1500 euros to volunteers to participate in operations.

In democratic Japan at the start of the XNUMXst century, it would therefore be difficult to find enough personnel to sacrifice yourself: what a paradox in the land of the Kamikazes!

According to the last Special Envoy on France2 (redif of last week on TV5 Monde), the liquidators exceed, probably twice, the directives of the hospital environment. On the spot, we saw a testimony that it was some of them (all?) Who voluntarily extended their exhibition “to finish the job” (it remains to be seen if they were conditioned and in what way, if at all. either the case). Either way, that's not the problem. If there is a spirit of sacrifice, it is a situation that has been brought about and of which they have to suffer the consequences. And that is intolerable.

Really, this article asks real questions, it is very good jlt22.
And we cannot accuse lecercle.lesechos.fr of primary anti-nuclear, liberal greens or late sixty-eight ;-)

[dedeleco]

they're going to remove radioactive substances from the water, ok. But to store them where?

Guess !!

At the Hague in France !!

It's nothing, once compacted, next to the nuclear fuel from a Japanese power station already treated as far as I know and sent back to Japan afterwards !!
See Greenpeace!

Nuclear is nothing, if we have good remote-controlled robots resistant to radiation, reliable and doing everything we can !!

You will see Areva, afterwards, tell us that French nuclear power is safe and harmless !!

[Addrelyn]

It is quite clear, incompatible. Reason why we must stop the massacre! Or else all the pros-nuclear must sign a charter according to which they undertake to be on the list of liquidators in the event of a nuclear accident. Otherwise it would not make sense for these people to force others to undergo the irresponsibility of their decision in their flesh. It is from the very paradigm of the liberal world to make people responsible.

The liquidators picked up pieces of corium with a shovel and a seal ... Stop saying anything, there is no comparison.

Or else all the nuclear pros must sign a charter according to which they undertake to be on the list of liquidators in the event of a nuclear accident.

No need, we go there without problem because we know that the dose we are going to take is low.
The risk is that of an accident in a dangerous environment. For example, people who work at p4 with Ebola viruses take the same risk: that the protective suit will fail. But protected, there is very little risk!

[Obamot]

Addrelyn: with words like yours, it would be zero pointed in college

There you insult the dead Chernobyl mios ...> and we can't admit that ... (Even on the basis of 60 victims ... whatever the number)

Then you blur the tracks but you do not have even the smallest beginning of a credible argument other than the statistical explanation of the "Linear method" completely disassembled here by a credible method also taking into account low doses with an ad hoc standard deviation!

In the meantime, the nuclear pros of your kind - focused on the paradigm of very short-term profits in defiance of human lives - are exposed. They would do better: to look at the scandals that arise every day in Fukushima with objectivity and choose to revise their vision of the world:
- either to revise their courses according to advances in research in order to adapt their knowledge
- either to continue in their "resistance to change" by making us happy to go their way ...

Otherwise I feel it will heat up again.

[dedeleco]

addrelyn read nothing of the 258-page scientific report this weekend !!

And for each post that denies the reality of the dangers, he is paid a little bit by the Lobby for services rendered !!
And this without any of the risks taken by decontaminators with dosimeters on only the heads, which do not correctly indicate the external dose (and nothing on the internal), only at 5 to 10 times near and much less precision seen the 258-page report on the real effects of radiation underestimated by at least 500 for any radioactive particle ingested or breathed.