The long-term storage of radioactive waste

Oil, gas, coal, nuclear (PWR, EPR, hot fusion, ITER), gas and coal thermal power plants, cogeneration, tri-generation. Peakoil, depletion, economics, technologies and geopolitical strategies. Prices, pollution, economic and social costs ...
User avatar
Woodcutter
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 4731
Registration: 07/11/05, 10:45
Location: Mountain ... (Trièves)
x 2

The long-term storage of radioactive waste




by Woodcutter » 19/01/07, 01:32

Article from Futura-Sciences which indicates that there is still work to be done to safely store hazardous waste over very long periods of time.
0 x
"I am a big brute, but I rarely mistaken ..."
Targol
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1897
Registration: 04/05/06, 16:49
Location: Bordeaux region
x 2




by Targol » 19/01/07, 10:46

Very interesting this article.
It would be nice to know the opinion of Areva or CEA in this regard.
0 x
"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding
User avatar
sam17
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 253
Registration: 14/02/06, 13:57
Location: la rochelle
x 1




by sam17 » 21/01/07, 11:12

One more element that confirms me in my refusal of nuclear power. : Evil:

what a cold shower for those who blindly trusted the deep storage solution ...
0 x
--
Patience is a tree whose root is bitter, and whose fruits are very sweet.
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79001
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10933




by Christophe » 21/01/07, 14:14

sam17 wrote:those who blindly trusted the deep storage solution ...


Uh ... does it exist?

Apart from EdF and Areva, I do not know anyone ... : Cheesy:

Uh, on the other hand, I have personal confidence in the future ... I think that using ITER or equivalent could very well eliminate all nuclear waste (it suffices to raise the temperature high enough ...) ... afterwards At what price? It is sure that the landfill will be more "profitable" ...
0 x
Targol
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1897
Registration: 04/05/06, 16:49
Location: Bordeaux region
x 2




by Targol » 22/01/07, 10:36

Christophe wrote:
sam17 wrote:those who blindly trusted the deep storage solution ...


Uh ... does it exist?


Yeah obviously: this weekend, my son was watching "C'est pas sorcier" which he adores and that I like too. The theme of the show was precisely nuclear. I ended up switching off the speech was so controlled: everything is fine, no risk, the Bure landfill center is great, etc ...
No flat, no language precaution. There is no doubt that if they want to secure their future, they must be consensual, but from there to make such an advertisement for nuclear without any downside, I find it on the verge of propaganda. Especially since this show enjoys an excellent reputation that makes the views issued much more effective !!! : Evil:
0 x
"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding
Chuwee
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 57
Registration: 05/05/06, 23:49




by Chuwee » 25/01/07, 18:49

Following the request of my opinion on the question by bucheron, here is my answer : Lol: :

I will say that it is not impossible. I lack data to do theoretical calculations ...
Given the strong ionization of alpha particles, it is possible that they modify the bonds and therefore the structure of zircon but hey, I'm not a chemist ...

On the other hand, some things seem odd to me:

When they bombard a crystal lattice like that of zircon, these heavy particles (alphas particles) do a lot of damage, each of them leaving a trace of several tens of centimeters.


Since an alpha is stopped by the upper layers of the skin and its course in the air is a few cm, it seems a little exaggerated : Lol:

Moreover, when the particle is ejected from its atom, this one, like a gun, undergoes a strong recoil and leaves in the opposite direction, causing also ravages.


Must not be exaggerated, it is only 0.087 MeV, it does not even represent a tenth of the energy of the gammas of the majority of radioelements present in waste nuc.
0 x
User avatar
Cuicui
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3547
Registration: 26/04/05, 10:14
x 6




by Cuicui » 25/01/07, 19:20

I think the best way to solve the nuclear waste problem is to stop producing nuclear waste.
The solution lies in nuclear fusion. ITER is not the solution, it is a research tool not planned to make electricity. On the other hand, the Z-pinch (magnetic necking) technology, much more rustic and less expensive than the magnetic confinement of Tokamaks, can be operational in the relatively short term.
For those who would like to know more to get an idea:
http://www.z-machine.net/fr/zm-article.html
and, in chronological order, the articles written by the physicist Jean-Pierre PETIT, unavoidable because it is unfortunately the only French scientist to have taken the initiative to publish on his site the result of his analyzes:
29/05/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... chine2.htm
30/05/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... #reactions
11/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... es_MHD.htm
15/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... _armements
17/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... _bavay.htm
25/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... ements.htm
25/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... Haines.htm
01/08/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/Presse/la_grande_epoque.htm
Good reading !
0 x
Chuwee
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 57
Registration: 05/05/06, 23:49




by Chuwee » 26/01/07, 00:38

The, I give up : Lol:

In reading the article, I just thought of something.
He talks about recreating all the mendeleiv table elements if one has a sufficiently high temperature with a clean fusion without neutron flux, which is theoretically feasible although for the "clean", I'm less sure ...
He also talks about his mythical boron-hydrogen, lithium-hydrogen (: lol:) fusions which, as I already explained to you, will never give helium.
I therefore deduce that it speaks of fusion to form heavier nuclei boron-hydrogen fusion to produce carbon.
(you take your favorite periodic table, you find the Bore (B), you shift one box to the right (1 hydrogen, so a proton) and you come across the carbon).
Oddly, we are moving away from Helium (He) ...
And there, we say to ourselves, that's good, I just created a carbon atom but it is unstable because it does not have the right number of neutrons (unless you start with unstable isotopes of boron or hydrogen). To make this fusion "clean", therefore without radioactive waste, neutrons are therefore needed. But this neutron flux will activate other elements and make them unstable (they have 1 or more neutrons in excess), etc, etc ...

You see what I mean? : Lol:

If after you trust blindly what you can find on the net without thinking a minimum, I can not do anything for you ... (It works also for what I say : Lol: )

What is funny is that we always find "extraordinary" information on the same sites, doesn't that shock you, do you?
0 x
User avatar
Woodcutter
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 4731
Registration: 07/11/05, 10:45
Location: Mountain ... (Trièves)
x 2




by Woodcutter » 26/01/07, 02:31

Cuicui wrote:I think the best way to solve the nuclear waste problem is to stop producing nuclear waste.
The solution lies in nuclear fusion. ITER is not the solution, it is a research tool not planned to make electricity. On the other hand, the Z-pinch (magnetic necking) technology, much more rustic and less expensive than the magnetic confinement of Tokamaks, can be operational in the relatively short term.
For those who would like to know more to get an idea:
http://www.z-machine.net/fr/zm-article.html
and, in chronological order, the articles written by the physicist Jean-Pierre PETIT, unavoidable because it is unfortunately the only French scientist to have taken the initiative to publish on his site the result of his analyzes:
29/05/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... chine2.htm
30/05/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... #reactions
11/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... es_MHD.htm
15/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... _armements
17/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... _bavay.htm
25/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... ements.htm
25/06/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/science/Z-machi ... Haines.htm
01/08/06 http://www.jp-petit.com/Presse/la_grande_epoque.htm
Good reading !
: Evil:
Cuicui you're nice I would like you stop us from shoving our ears with the Z-Machine as soon as a subject approaches the nuclear ...
At first, it's interesting, after it's fun, but there ALL TIME is GAVANT !!!
Thank you! :x

PS: Your articles, have you put them back in the specific post Z-Machine at least? : roll:
0 x
"I am a big brute, but I rarely mistaken ..."
User avatar
Cuicui
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 3547
Registration: 26/04/05, 10:14
x 6




by Cuicui » 26/01/07, 09:08

Hi Bucheron,
Sorry to be heavy with my big hooves filled with straw : Cheesy: I do not want to play Mikhail : Cheesy: I just want to be sure that the info has passed and that everyone can make an informed judgment. Since this information offers a solution to the problem of energy production and nuclear waste, I think they are right in the subject and it would be a shame to ignore them. For those who are not yet aware, I will probably remember them from time to time, but discreetly, promised. For me, the problem is how to encourage our decision-makers to use the Gramat z-machine for civil purposes in order to replicate Sandia's experience and study all the phenomena associated with it, in particular this release of unexplained energy (could a plant operate without recourse to known fuels?)
You, perso, what do you think of the prospects that suggests the technique of magnetic necking (compression)?
Last edited by Cuicui the 26 / 01 / 07, 18: 11, 3 edited once.
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Go back to "Fossil energies: oil, gas, coal and nuclear electricity (fission and fusion)"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : Majestic-12 [Bot] and 260 guests