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saveplanet
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by saveplanet » 18/11/06, 14:00

In terms of the home page, on the contrary, I find it very well that there is because that's how I researched and I read this post for the Other éconologues.
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by saveplanet » 18/11/06, 14:03

christophe thank you for the gifts! :D
And activist, I am more than ever, it's just that the reality is not pleasant but that choice comes along then as I am, and so continue reading, document to talk about me , encourage knowledge and awareness.
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by Christophe » 18/11/06, 14:10

saveplanet wrote:In terms of the home page, on the contrary, I find it very well that there is because that's how I researched and I read this post for the Other éconologues.


Ok then I say nothing ... I thought it was a reproach ...
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by Christophe » 18/11/06, 14:12

saveplanet wrote:christophe thank you for the gifts! :D
And activist, I am more than ever, it's just that the reality is not pleasant but that choice comes along then as I am, and so continue reading, document to talk about me , encourage knowledge and awareness.


Well chosen your camp to campaign ... Evites the kind of large organizations Greenpeace style ... cf. https://www.econologie.com/la-face-cache ... -2619.html
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by delnoram » 18/11/06, 14:46

iota wrote:
bham wrote:
iota wrote:I read the book .. "

Well, so what?


Ben, like all taxes, if properly used and the purpose for which they are described, why not.
If it's as progressive tax and the low wages follow why not.
There is the idea to dig.

It only concerns the island of France from what I understood.

The TIPP or rather TIC is it seems to me a fixed tax, it is to which does not vary according to the price of the oil.
The increase in the tax is the region that choose and you fall well the bourgognr is one of the regions that increases the least ...... for now.
For a country which has in its motto "Equality", I often ask myself questions :|
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by Christophe » 18/11/06, 14:56

Exactly, it is fixed per liter ... (€ 0.26 as I recall ...)

What is funny is that VAT is applied after (and so on) the ICT ... but this kind of manipulation is common ... we must talk about 0.26 € HT l ...
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by bham » 18/11/06, 15:04

Christophe wrote:Not talk taxes with bham ... : Cheesy:


grrrrrrrrrr .........
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by zac » 18/11/06, 15:12

saveplanet wrote:And activist, I am more than ever,


Hello

Adapt your life to your idea and oil (and taxes) you will pose more problems : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

@+
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by nonoLeRobot » 18/11/06, 16:50

However, if it is not to tax the goods and passenger transport companies, it is not called more taxing energy, but taxing the motorist. : Evil: and I could understand the irritations (that said, do not tax all fossil fuels) goes against the idea of ​​the book.

And for oil, it is sure that I am not to see people freeze in winter but heating is one of the main pbs, who most solutions, it will go slowly but surely. Probably in order to be safe from break even after an investment (we always reluctant to invest if we know that the price of oil may drop depending on the markets) should be strongly supported by the state, at least to be able to spread time investments that individuals can not do.

Saveplanet, for someone who is already more or less aware of the problems of the environment, the book is not depressing and he only had positive reviews (Not necessarily book the idea of ​​tax) from the newspapers of any edge.
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by bham » 18/11/06, 19:42

Nono, Rulian, Bucheron, Christine, Christophe, ... I understand your point of view related to the urgency of the situation and the need to do something quickly not to take the wall. And here I join you. Hence the possibility via taxation (TIPP increase), to artificially advance the critical period when the energy of hydrocarbon origin will be rare or / and highly demanded and therefore expensive.
Thus by surcharging fuels of hydrocarbon origin:
-1-One prepares before maturity (at best qqs years), scarcity and high cost of fossil fuels,

-2 We suppose save years of emissions of greenhouse gases, generating a progressive and immediate reduction of our energy needs, at least those that generate greenhouse gases.
So if we do not surcharge, it is therefore assumed continue to consume as much or more fossil energy gradually until there are no more or / and be too expensive.
So to overtax, for the sake of our planet.
I guess the reasoning is pretty close to Jancovici and in theory, it seems quite plausible or attractive.
On one condition: that a significant rise in oil prices will not rise faster than expected this situation of scarcity and shortage sought by overtaxation. Because in this case, overtaxation becomes useless.

And in practice, I am afraid that this theory of surtaxation is as effective as we want to believe it.
Because she thinks cause a decline, which I still do not know what it is but I would call economic recession, which certainly goes beyond sustainability, see https://www.econologie.com/forums/non-au-vic ... t2615.html
While it is true that even without surcharge we risk such a recession, sooner or later, I do not see the States advocating the decay that inevitably must generate tax revenue cuts, job losses, companies that lose markets, etc ...... in short, a complete overhaul of our societies, so political instability and therefore an embarrassing situation for our leaders.

lumberjack wrote:I'm repeating myself, but I don't see how we could "impose" an ecological conscience ... There is a contradiction!
The awareness comes from within, education ... Again (again ... I feel to do it on this post ...) education, the opening of all world ecological awareness is a long process and believe me, it is VERY FAR AWAY from won


So to answer you, Bucheron, when I spoke about ecological consciousness, I did not envisage for a single second that every citizen converts there, what I grant you is the domain of the dream. I spoke to you about a political ecological conscience. It is enough to see what is happening today in politics to see how much the citizens are sheep. It would then be enough for leaders to be ecologically aware so that citizens can follow them on measures to reduce energy and protect the environment. It is very easy for executives to say to the national car manufacturers: develop this auto model by reducing its consumption and its environmental impact, stop making thermal insulators that require large amounts of energy for their manufacture (melting of glass or glass). rock for example), .... etc.
But our leaders do they want? are they really aware? Do they really want the decay? it comes back to topics relating to Nicolas Hulot.
You will notice as I take the problem unlike Jancovici: what is overtaxing if there is no primary political will to change things because for me the overtaxation is not a positive act, this is an easy solution which tends to say, we see qqchose done to the ecology. But realistically, it does not offer real solutions, it is even not an admission decision.
And today, it is clear that our leaders through the blossoming of environmental taxes of all kinds, are riding this wave economic-ecological knowing full well that it is in the air.
There are undoubtedly environmental taxes necessary to organize good recycling and good management of resources, but there will also surely be unnecessary ones which will only benefit certain privileged people rather than the environment. So for me, we are only making money to maintain growth, to prepare perhaps for the alternation of certain companies by others in more "ecological" sectors, but we are not preparing for decline.
It is not by typing the wallet citizens that profoundly change the situation. For him the citizen, he can not demand to buy a car which consumes almost nothing he can not require to have a roof next to his work, in short, it takes what comes, it has decision-making power in regard to his life, and again.
But it will be seen in several years, when they say, well yes, we did what we could, we have taxed energy and yet it was not enough.
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