Oil is (actually seems) "easy" to transport because we have been working on the problem for 150 years !!!
Don't you think that the authors of Desertec did not think about the problem of transport?
We can very well transport electricity over 5000 km and pass Gibraltar (we do it well for gas or oil pipelines?) ... with some losses that's for sure ... so what? Are there no refining or oil well losses?
The problem of the "day / night periodicity" (supply and demand reversed) is a more difficult problem to solve, but also applied research is progressing (storage in salts at 400-500 ° C) ... there too!
Does solar energy have a future?
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- chatelot16
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thermal storage is the bastard thing that kills the reliability of solar thermal: this is what killed the themis solar power plant: if it had made current only when the sun is shining it would have been profitable the first time
energy culture and solar thermal are complementary
with solar electricity only we cannot make liquid fuel
with biomass we can make a little liquid fuel
with biomass AND solar energy we can make a lot of liquid fuel: fischer tropsh using solar heat at all stages where heat is needed
energy culture and solar thermal are complementary
with solar electricity only we cannot make liquid fuel
with biomass we can make a little liquid fuel
with biomass AND solar energy we can make a lot of liquid fuel: fischer tropsh using solar heat at all stages where heat is needed
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- sen-no-sen
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chatelot16 wrote:these huge solar power plants in the desert would make electricity for whom? difficult to transport where it is useful ...
how much would these huge solar power stations cost?
it seems to me that irrigating the desert to cultivate anything (energy or food) would not cost more: but the production would be easier to sell and transport!
solar has a future! in all its forms !
Hello!
Remember that the "losses" for Desertec would be of the order of 12%, knowing that the sun is free, this is quite correct.
For the cost it is fixed at 400 billion euros, a figure which may seem enormous, but to be shared over several countries!
I remind you that the cost of dismantling the Franco-French nuclear fleet will amount to nearly 100 billion € ... sum to be set out again ... to 63 million inhabitants!
I think that initially, (that is to say now) a European "mini Desertec" could already be launched (solar concentration in the south of Spain, Italy and Greece, solar islands in the Mediterranean, without forgetting France which has a certain potential all the same).
Solar is THE solution of the future!
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sen-no-sen wrote:I think that initially, (that is to say now) a European "mini Desertec" could already be launched (solar concentration in the south of Spain, Italy and Greece, solar islands in the Mediterranean, without forgetting France which has a certain potential all the same).
It's already in operation!
Spain has several linear parabolic concentrator plants that have been operating since 2008.
And funds have just been released to make a Desertec demonstrator I believe!
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- minguinhirigue
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Chatelot16, I would point out that in Spain day-night thermal storage is now functional and profitable ... What killed Thémis was no longer the very low apparent cost * of nuclear energy at the same time.
On the other hand, as regards the production in the Mediterranean countries, I remain skeptical on the fact that this production participates in a fair and socially respectable development of the countries "owner" of solar energy! You just have to see how energy resources are managed today in all developing countries !
* Apparently because I like to remind people that the conditions of exploitation of the ore are closer to slavery than anything else, that the R&D to strongly benefit from the enormous military budgets, and that the accounts for the dementia and the burial are not always regulated (see the diffusion of radioactive materials in our current consumer products!) ...
On the other hand, as regards the production in the Mediterranean countries, I remain skeptical on the fact that this production participates in a fair and socially respectable development of the countries "owner" of solar energy! You just have to see how energy resources are managed today in all developing countries !
* Apparently because I like to remind people that the conditions of exploitation of the ore are closer to slavery than anything else, that the R&D to strongly benefit from the enormous military budgets, and that the accounts for the dementia and the burial are not always regulated (see the diffusion of radioactive materials in our current consumer products!) ...
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Christophe wrote:sen-no-sen wrote:I think that initially, (that is to say now) a European "mini Desertec" could already be launched (solar concentration in the south of Spain, Italy and Greece, solar islands in the Mediterranean, without forgetting France which has a certain potential all the same).
It's already in operation!
Spain has several linear parabolic concentrator plants that have been operating since 2008.
And funds have just been released to make a Desertec demonstrator I believe!
I am aware of Christophe, but it seems to me that France does not play a major role in this type of project?
In addition, I do not think either that a real European solar production program is really up to date (with a significant% of solar production in the national energy balance).
It is clear, however, that Spain has taken the lead on this point!
If you have any news I am interested.
The thank you box
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sen-no-sen wrote:I am aware of Christophe, but it seems to me that France does not play a major role in this type of project?
Well yes but ... pkoi do? We have Areva and the EPR in France, are keen on concentrating solar energy! We have no money for that! Already the nuke will cost the skin of the balls in the coming years ...
Desertec is essentially a project with German capital I believe ... zon more nuke therefore must invest "elsewhere" ...
sen-no-sen wrote:It is clear, however, that Spain has taken the lead on this point! If you have any news I am interested.
The thank you box
Well, I don't have more than "everyone" who goes on google
I believe that one of the Spanish plants has a thermal buffer system with molten salts ...
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Christophe wrote:
a project with German capital I believe ... zon more nuke therefore must invest "elsewhere" ...
...
Zi zi, zon still not bad (about 1/4 of their electricity, it seems to me), but they are trying to free themselves from it! So they invest elsewhere ...
Anyway, they zon had green people in the government for a while.
PS: But times are changing, with them too, I'm not sure that the exit of the nuke does not have lead in the wing ...
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Yes, but when I say z'en on plus it is for the future: they will not renew their power plants ... so they must invest in the alternative ...
We do it too, but with the EPR (60 years of service life anyway) ...
We do it too, but with the EPR (60 years of service life anyway) ...
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