The nuclear KWH not expensive! True price of EDF nuclear?

[Did67]

So if we all agree, so much the better.

Many "arguments" are simply linked to the lack of precision: subsidies direct or grants indirect.

Example: electricity from PV receives a direct subsidy, through a “forced” purchase price, offset by a subsidy, charged to the CSPE. It can therefore be produced at around 30 cents per kWh by an individual and sold by EdF on the basis of a purchase price, by EdF, of around 5 cents. The difference is the subsidy. EdF who sells it about 10 cents (to a consumer who pays it about 16 cents - because he pays taxes, and taxes on taxes - VAT on certain taxes! You follow me in Simca 1000?).

Example: our food (and our agricultural exports) still benefit from indirect subsidies, resulting from the CAP (Common Agricultural Policy), through the DPU and "decoupling" (this means that it has been "detached" from production) . Each farm receives a "certain amount", valued on a historical basis (eg, if the farm produced so many ha of maize in the reference year, it has a "drawing right" of so many ha. subsidies; even if today it produces strawberries on this surface). It is obvious that if she no longer benefited from it, she would have to sell her products - her strawberries therefore - at the "real" price, therefore more expensive!

So the Minister is right who says that there are no more export subsidies (such as they existed: the famous "compensatory amounts" - we tax on entry, we subsidize on exit; know those who know the Simca 1000). He talks about subsidies direct. There’s more!

And rightly the environmental candidate, who says that subsidies weigh on prices and compete with local production in Africa. He thinks subsidy indirect via the DPU, which means that we can sell at a lower price than it would cost to actually produce in an "advanced liberal economy" ... The African peasant, he has no ... DPU!

Draw, ball in the center! And long live Brazil !!! In Simca 1000!

[sen-no-sen]

Direct or indirect subsidy does not matter, on the other hand the cost (blow?) Is all that is most real!
If we compare the cost of nuclear power as a whole, to the rest of other energy sources, it turns out that the latter is no longer "competitive" at all ...

[Did67]

Certainly.

But in the cost is found, noramlement, depreciation. So if the plant has been "under-invoiced", this reduces the cost of production.

I do not know if and / or how the Court of Auditors did its accounts and possibly rectified this distortion.

For the "most competitive", I'll let you argue.

In my opinion, even if it has climbed significantly, this is unfortunately not the case overall. Hydraulic power is less expensive than nuclear power, of course. Renewable, globally, is more expensive ... except wind power. I do not have the prices of electricity from "fossil fuels" (for power plants). But the German tarfis would make me think the opposite too. So I would say the situation is very variable.

I speak there, cost of production, before subsidies, of installation carried out turnkey.

[Remundo]

news,

nuclear kWh - largely - beaten by renewable energies and gas for electricity production

Lazard_cout_MWh.png (216.17 KB) Viewed 3301 times

Source: Lazard study (United States)

Trend over several years

[Christophe]

Great! Nice comparison thank you !! (I feel that he will make some scream here !!)

A) We will note the very spectacular drops in the price of wind and especially solar !! Are they 3 times less than nuclear and 2 times less than coal in 2017? It is hardly believable!

If that's true: how many GWs installed in France again? Ah no it is too expensive and it is the renewable energies which make the bankruptcy of EDF that the lobbyists (retired Edf executives at 10 000 € per month generally who get bored) say: energies-renewable / disinformation-the-renewable-energies-are-the-bankruptcy-of-EDF-t14745.html

B) What does "levelized cost" mean? Unsubsidied I understand ...

And reciprocating ???

C) Because, not to mention the history, they all seem high to me!

The industrial purchase price may be less than € 100 / MWh

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Electricity_prices_for_industrial_consumers,_second_half_2014_(%C2%B9)_(EUR_per_kWh)_YB15-fr.png

... and on powernext (which no longer manages electricity now ...) I saw the MWh at less than € 10 / MWh (January 1st!) ... therefore less than 1 cts / kWh .. .but it's the energy market, not the fundamental prices. It was a long time ago but I mentioned it again here: energies-fossil-nuclear / it-feels-the-end-of-nuclear-en-Belgium-t14418-20.html # p297349

EU statistics on the price of electricity: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics ... did=291900

ps: ok must correct the € / $ parity to around 1,25 ...

[Meszigues3]

news,

nuclear kWh - largely - beaten by renewable energies and gas for electricity production

Source: Lazard study (United States)

Trend over several years

An overview of the report (and not of a misleading extract) reveals two enormities:

(1) Analysis excludes integration (eg, grid and conventional generation investment to overcome system intermittency) costs for intermittent technologies.

Capacity factor: Wind: 55% (France 2017 20%)

Trendy calculations. The latest calls for tenders for marine wind power give $ 240 / MWh, not including the essential network modifications, and not including the essential back-up or storage.

[Remundo]

you may not like Lazard, but when it comes to investments and financial analysis, it's their job and they're not bad.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazard

network management externalities are also a cost with nuclear power.

[Christophe]

(I feel that he will make some scream here !!)

QED!

And izentrop and Cie have not yet passed!

[Ahmed]

Christophe, you wonder:

What does "levelized cost" mean? Unsubsidied I understand ...
And reciprocating ???

"Reciprocating" means reciprocating, "a reciprocating saw", it is a saber saw ... But here it simply means a piston engine, as opposed to a turbine.
“levelized cost” is a term whose equivalent in French is “actualized cost” (I checked! Because it is a very specific financial technical expression ...).

[sicetaitsimple]

C) Because, not to mention the history, they all seem high to me!

EU statistics on the price of electricity: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics ... did=291900

Be careful not to compare things that are not comparable.

The LCOE (levelized cost of electricity) is actually a relatively standardized calculation which is interested in a project future, which did not come out of the ground, based on a number of technical and financial assumptions which may or may not be verified in the life of the project.

The market price is the result, at a place and at a time, of the confrontation between demand and supply existing..