Impunity of a killer: Diesel diesel

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Cuicui
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by Cuicui » 30/10/12, 14:58

sen-no-sen wrote:Petrol vehicles also produce particles, but in smaller quantities.

In this case, you should also ban them, right?
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by chatelot16 » 30/10/12, 15:11

gasoline engines make less carbon particles in total weight ... but it is only particles of a certain fineness which are dangerous ... old diesel engines that smoke black are not necessarily the worst ... gasoline engines also make fine carbon particles ... the exhaust system of my gasoline or gas generator sets are black too

be careful big high efficiency diesel which only make large particles of carbon which I do not find dangerous make especially a lot of NOx which make the smoke irritating and toxic

for a good performance you need a high temperature: a lot of NOx is a sign of good engine performance ... the current catalytic converter is not very effective for NOx

I hope that there are useful solutions with wet limestone absorbers ... I wonder why we do not see anything in this sense currently

this kind of absorber works very well cold: therefore ideal for all small displacements ... if it works less hot it does not matter ... we could unplug it to let it cool on the main roads NOx campaign is not a problem
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by sen-no-sen » 31/10/12, 19:43

Cuicui wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:Petrol vehicles also produce particles, but in smaller quantities.

In this case, you should also ban them, right?


In absolute terms, vehicles using fossil fuels should be completely eliminated, except in the current state of the technologies made available, the worst should be eliminated, ie diesels.
Japan has made this choice it is not for nothing.
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by Christophe » 05/11/12, 19:59

Small note: in Luxembourg, SP95 petrol (1.25 € / L) is now cheaper than diesel (1.27 € / L for regular and 1.37 € / L for excellium and equivalent) ... and we're not in the USA but in the heart of Europe ...
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by Christophe » 05/11/12, 20:02

sen-no-sen wrote:Japan has made this choice it is not for nothing.


Indeed: not for nothing ... because their supply of crude oil is historically light, therefore containing much more gasoline than European crude oil ...

Sorry but the pollution has nothing to do with the choice of Japanese to have very little diesel in cars ...
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by sen-no-sen » 15/11/12, 18:30

Christophe wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:Japan has made this choice it is not for nothing.


Indeed: not for nothing ... because their supply of crude oil is historically light, therefore containing much more gasoline than European crude oil ...

Sorry but the pollution has nothing to do with the choice of Japanese to have very little diesel in cars ...


It is for health reasons that Japan to ban diesel for individuals in large cities, especially following complaints from victims of respiratory diseases:

Diesel manufacturers convicted in Japan
24/08/2007 - Diesel pollutes! It is time to confront diesel with these responsibilities, and to bring it to justice, this is what happened in Japan.

In Tokyo, several hundred victims of respiratory illnesses had joined together in an association to bring a joint legal action. 630 plaintiffs, and almost as many accused, since they had filed a complaint against 7 car manufacturers manufacturing diesel cars (Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi ...), the Metropolitan Government of Tokyo, which is the regulatory authority air quality, and the Metropolitan Expressway Co, a highway company. Huge trial, river. 11 years of procedures, acts, dismissals, until June 22 of this year. (...)


http://www.moteurnature.com/actu/uneactu.php?news_id=1948

This is easily understood in Tokyo, where the population exceeds 34 million inhabitants!
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by chatelot16 » 18/11/12, 22:07

the program that just went on 5 is interesting

the particle filters stop what it can, but the finest particles are formed after the exit of the exhaust pipe when the exhaust gas cools down! no hot filter can retain them since they are still in gaseous form

it therefore confirms that my solution of completely cooling the exhaust gases by mixing with cold water is an interesting solution

it will make a gas plant a little more bulky than the current catalytic converter and DPF, but at least a real effective solution

I had not yet thought about this particle formation in the cooling of the exhaust gas, but that explains to me why a masonry room where we turned several gasoline engine for a few years has the walls completely black: gas gasoline engine exhaust that ran there seemed clean: did not blacken a rag ... but the particles formed further and blackened the walls

I see the same problem coming when we measure the particles at the outlet of a petrol engine: we do not find any with a filter on the hot exhaust gas ...

a filtering system by mixing cold water can also be a radical NOx solution, if in addition it passes through a layer of limestone gravel
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by Remundo » 18/11/12, 23:28

It's normal, Chatelot, here is a link that shows all the soup that comes out of an exhaust pipe
http://web.univ-pau.fr/~deletraz/e_art_2.pdf

Whether you have a filter or not, a catalyst or not, a lot of compounds are emitted, there is no CO2 or H2O, unfortunately.

I am not very learned in the medical field, but I wonder if the use of FAP Diesel is not ultimately very beneficial.

Before, large particles penetrated the bronchi less, there, they are made fine enough to settle there ...

In addition to this, the DPF muzzles the exhaust of Diesel, there are lots of breakdowns or chronic underpower on "modern" Diesel. Some DPF become blocked, especially in town because for a DPF to work well, the engine must in principle be hot and fully loaded for a long time (motorway 140 km / h for 1 / 2h).

Finally, the FAP require "post-combustion", that is to say that we use diesel only to sweep the FAP, including in town. The FAP are only stocks of large particles which are swept from time to time by means of "very learned" catalysts ...

Marketing sells them under different terms ... But it is quite clear that from a motorization point of view, FAPs are counterproductive.
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by chatelot16 » 18/11/12, 23:44

unlike the catalytic converter and fap, a wet and cold filter is effective from the start, when there is the most need because it is cold that the diesel smokes the most

unlike the catalytic converter which starts to work only when it is hot

it is not a dream in a vacuum: it is time to make something adaptable to all old vehicles without reducing their performance

unlike the FAP which flanges the engine by a pressure drop on the exhaust, and the EGR which puts the engine down by fouling them
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by Remundo » 18/11/12, 23:54

you're absolutely right.

Besides, those who make Gillier Pantone notice much less polluted gases, no doubt that water plays a role in fixing particles.

The wet cloth is a great way to fix the particles: it became all black. Green people would be happy to stigmatize Diesel.

Now it remains white because the particles are too fine to be visible, or they pass through the mesh of the fabric. But it is not because we no longer see the soot that it is better ... :?

And personally, I would not be against l'legal obligation to sell plug-in hybrid vehicles capable of driving at least 20 km on an urban 100% electric basis. it would be really cleverer than spending your time on catalysts and FAPs. that would solve the noise and the automobile pollution in urban environment. Of course, the plugs would remain.
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