Summer digressions on public debt

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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Christophe » 11/08/16, 14:34

Same for Ahmed! But I have a little trouble with the last sentence ... the singularity of the subjective ???
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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Obamot » 11/08/16, 14:52

I do not make the weight, I am still at the singularity of the singularity ^^

For my part, I do not have all the answers either (far from it) but I would sum it up as quickly as possible * as follows:
- "responsibility"VS"need (s) of constraint (s)".

La responsibility** being somewhat the path (strewn with pitfalls) of his accession to his "freedom" => the "need for constraint", being the tool that would have to be mastered to gain it ... (perhaps? ) Debt is difficult to place between the two. It is the ambiguity of the thing.

If you want Eclectron, humanity has not yet reached a stage where the "taking responsibility"would go by themselves in society ... This is one of the reasons for the debt. And it is a work in perpetual renewal with permanently new generations ignorant (or not?) who arrive with "new" needs, which renew the generations that are dying out ... What about inheritance? And what inheritance ... An iPhone is thin.

To achieve that idealism triumphs over obscurantism (so that obscurantism can go so far as individuals "forget" that they do not have enough "means" to acquire goods, the denial must be severe enough ...), it would therefore be well what a man "goes beyond his own self-awareness"(concept which cannot be explained in a single sentence ^^) and this to ensure"bring group consciousness BEFORE individual consciousness"(what you call" ego "?). Some animals have succeeded, whereas man has not. Man only sometimes does (when constraints push him to do so?) and it is far from being the rule nor to be won in advance ....

I place of course the exctractivisme in the "need of constraint», As long as it exists is that Man does not assume consciousness of what he is (as much as he would like), since he could very well do without it if he had overall out of self-awareness (I should think about it better - it's still a bit rough like that, huh, : Mrgreen: - like thinking about a collection of laws that would govern all that - dead laughing (well, slowly, not too quickly anyway ... see the short list I cited above as "multifactorial and possible causes", I still have time to digest them ...) - but it would be necessary for that to be sufficiently qualified, that I take for example as teachers of people like Ahmed and even Sen-no-Sen (Janic already refused and he was right to give up, as for Izentrop as a radioactive GMO pawn, he already has an assistant : Mrgreen: ) not too "for" either to have teachers, since this is what would prevent my own realization of the overcoming of the consciousness that I would have of myself, mwouhouhou ... : Cry: : Mrgreen: I think of becoming a bonze or a simple introductory seminar in the welding profession would suit me by default ... ^^) good I stop dec ... er here, I promise. Not so simple to remake the world, like Eclectron which throws a little cold with questions whose answers can be contained in the questions ^^

There is no indiscreet question, only the answers can be ... In short, very far from the result, I see it like that: the muddle of our psyches is in great confusion for some, a little less for the others ... (but maybe I am wrong: already, it is case by case, so I should rewrite everything what I said above, for each of- we...) : Cheesy:

Hello Dr Image

*once is not custom ^^
** and not "accountabilityI speak of something acquired.
Last edited by Obamot the 11 / 08 / 16, 15: 21, 3 edited once.
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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Ahmed » 11/08/16, 15:19

@ Christophe: what do you mean
Same for Ahmed
Perhaps "Word of Ahmed!", What the exclamation point suggests ...

Subjectivity is opposed to individualism, the latter being a pseudo-subjectivity reduced to its minimum portion; the elementary ego particle without thickness intended to confront other individuals on the sole plane of the market. Individualism is a paradoxical concept, in the sense that it is conceived as a solitude in the midst of a multitude of similarities, a sort of "solitude of promiscuity" to use a beautiful phrase from JP Sartre...
Qualitatively, the subjective can only be singular (unique) and in relation to other subjects, which are also singular ...

@ Obamot, you write:
... not too "for" either to have teachers, since that is what would prevent my own realization of the overcoming of the consciousness that I would have of myself, mwouhou ...

Excellent remark! Our society readily accommodates thought specialists, the better to dispossess of the possibility of reflection those who do not have the time to devote to it ... It is a means of "producing" thought for the consumption of others: even an emancipatory discourse remains alienating in this disastrous scheme.
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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Obamot » 11/08/16, 16:44

I did not write: - "mwoohou... "
I wrote: - "mwouhouhou..."

Please do not distort my words!
Image
... never do that again: okay!?!


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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Ahmed » 11/08/16, 19:21

Sorry for what could appear to be censorship, but which is (I agree with pleasure) only an involuntary error and, oh how much, regrettable! Please accept my apologies ... : Oops: : Oops: : Oops:
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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Obamot » 11/08/16, 22:35

I prefer that ! I already have the name of BORROWING Image



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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Ahmed » 12/08/16, 14:19

As long as you are not borrowed, everything is fine!
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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by eclectron » 12/08/16, 18:05

@Ahmed,

This is what appears superficially and it is false for two reasons. First, as I have already mentioned, the exchange of goods and services is not the primary purpose of the exchange, it is only the condition for the effectiveness of the exchange, then, the money cannot be reduced to an intermediary, since money is also a commodity; this last point is all the more evident when one observes the decline of the manufacturing industry and the corresponding boom in the financial industry.

Oh!?
In exchange for your work (good and service) you get money.
What do you buy with this money? Goods and services. Money is also a good and service in its own right.
What we do not exchange between us, in society, are goods and services using money as an intermediary.
Bartering is the exchange of goods and services without going through money.
The exchange with money is more convenient, that's all.


Can you not say the same thing about this world with money?

Less, since everything is supposed to be valued fairly by the market.
Everyone has their quota of money to have fun, everything is under control!
But I agree that the accumulation of money leads to drifts.
Like, I buy all the world wheat by what I have the money : Arrow: : shortage !
I resell the taste account by pocketing a nice more valuable.
Fortunately, that never happens in reality! : Lol:

Going from the anonymous quantitative to the singularity of the subjective is quite a challenge!

Yes, just like understanding this sentence! : Lol:
Put more simply, what would it look like?

this is also why "free" energy does not work, failing to fulfill this condition

Digression in digression.
It is a bit early to conclude. We don't know everything about the universe. We can imagine one or more dimensions still unknown in current physics and having a certain porosity with our dimension, allowing to realize the condition of which you speak. An interdimensional pumping, would be my definition of free energy for the moment, until proof of concrete realization. : roll:
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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Obamot » 12/08/16, 21:02

Ahmed wrote:
Ahmed wrote:In the economy, not autarkic, but of traditional self-production, the surplus is exchanged for a sum of money which is used to buy what is not produced on the family farm: the amount of value remains at the same level, what changes is the substance of the goods. There is a qualitative gain from the two swingers, since each receives what he lacks by giving up what he has in excess and which is therefore useless for him.
Going from the anonymous quantitative to the singularity of the subjective is quite a challenge!


It's simple, (unless I am mistaken : Mrgreen: ) it means that it is necessary to transcend the informal qualitative of its subjective singularity, to overcome the cleavage offered by abstract values, it advocates a return to simple exchanges, what ...

quote = "Ahmed"] As long as you are not borrowed, everything is fine! [/ quote]
Not that much, the calf is sleeping, and each of us feeding it on credit : Wink: : Cheesy:
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Re: Summer Digressions on Public Debt




by Ahmed » 12/08/16, 23:31

Eclectron, you write:
In exchange for your work (good and service) you get money.
What do you buy with this money? Goods and services. Money is also a good and service in its own right.

That money is a good and a service confirms that it is not a simple intermediary ... What you describe is only the phenomenon, not what it implies (see below) .

Then:
The exchange with money is more convenient, that's all.

Bartering can very easily take place asymmetrically, because it is enough that the difference in value between two goods turns into debt, this is what was practiced very long before the use of money which is not that a formalization of this debt and above all, it is not trivial since the debt thus becomes anonymous and can be transmitted indefinitely.

Further:
Less, since everything is supposed to be valued fairly by the market.
Everyone has their quota of money to have fun, everything is under control!

This is the official speech; on the other hand, what is correct in this statement is that the market behaves, more or less, like an automatic regulation which dispenses with extensive control of trade: it is relatively simple and allows the main economic agents to discard all responsibility, even if it remains moderately credible ... Let us say that this allows internal conflicts to be managed so as to keep social antagonisms stable: the market is an obstacle to any questioning.
But this control only operates at this level and here the purpose of the system is introduced, which is not the exchange of goods, but the accumulation of abstract value of which this exchange is only the means; this is what is important to understand: an invisible reversal of means and ends.
Let us say that the price to pay for this facility is the subjection to systemic determinisms of which few are precisely aware (many suspect it) and it is very serious, because any system is autonomous and follows its own logic to detriment of those who abandon themselves to it. From this point of view, the speculation to which you allude is a systemic necessity and not a drift of unscrupulous people.

Again:
Put more simply, what would it look like?

See my response to Christophe.

Finally:
We can imagine one or more dimensions still unknown in current physics and having a certain porosity with our dimension, allowing to realize the condition of which you speak.

You can imagine anything you want, actually. I just talk about our dimension and do not speculate on what I do not know.
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