Diesel fuel: tankers overcharge their margin

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EVEN
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by EVEN » 13/06/08, 12:58

Christine wrote:I just thought that maybe there could be the beginning of a possible new dynamic there, but I was wrong and this conversation will remain sterile, as usual.

That's all.


no no no!
don't be as obtuse :|

the new dynamic exists but it is only that our leaders (official representatives of the LPBB: protection league for BRAMEURS AND BRAILLEURS) become less and less at ease; preservation of the environment is it not now in the constitution? it is therefore on this basis that our leaders must operate now and not on that of LPBBistes.

So let's not be too target : Cheesy: the wealth linked to the quality of life from which we aspire is worth a thousand times the futility of blingbling academy
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by bham » 13/06/08, 12:59

Christine wrote:bham, you are free to see only the differences in sensitivities between us rather than the common points. You are also free to remain in the bitterness of "it is the others who ...". I think it's a shame but it's never just a personal feeling.

I just thought that maybe there could be the beginning of a possible new dynamic there, but I was wrong and this conversation will remain sterile, as usual.
That's all.


For the commonalities, I think we are part of the same category of consumers, ie against the grain of the norm, unless I am wrong. And fundamentally committed to respecting the environment. Do you see anything else

How do you see this new dynamic?
So that a convesration is not sterile, each part must evolve, right? But maybe you think I'm the only one who doesn't evolve?
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by Christophe » 13/06/08, 13:03

EVEN wrote:preservation of the environment is it not now in the constitution?


Argument not too admissible: in the declaration of human rights there is also a vague "trick" which says that social distinctions will be based on common utility...

Read this sentence thinking of certain industrialists ... I wouldn't name a name : Cheesy: : Mrgreen:
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by MBenoit » 13/06/08, 14:35

Matt113 wrote:they precisely specify in the S&V that they speak of proven resources so this figure will not remain reliable over time.


I am therefore not the only one to have read it. To stay in the 'natural resources' section, they also make a kind of table with known mineral resources (figures to be taken with tweezers in my opinion).
About twenty years of reserve known for gold, silver, zinc, lead ... and 80 years for iron ...
Anyone have orders of magnitude to compare, it seems very little ...
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by Christine » 13/06/08, 14:42

bham wrote:How do you see this new dynamic?
So that a convesration is not sterile, each part must evolve, right? But maybe you think I'm the only one who doesn't evolve?

I was not thinking of you in particular. It's been 5 years now that forum exist, it's been decades that we have been warned of the dangers hanging over our faces and we continue to argue, quibble to find out if it's the fault:
- to the rich
- to the poor
- to politicians
- to manufacturers
- to oil tankers
- at sarkozy
- 4x4
- Beaufs
- to the old idiots
- to young idiots
- to those who work
- to those who do not work
- to taxes
- to the unemployed
- profiteers
- Spanish
- in Brussels
- Chinese
- to the Polish / Czech / Romanian plumber ... finally from a country where it curdles
- African / black / Arab immigrants ... finally from a country where we sweat
my list is not exhaustive ...

As far as I am concerned, I admit that these speeches pumped up all my energy and I no longer even have the strength to intervene to try to rectify, relativize, positivize etc.
That's what I mean by "sterile conversations" not to say "outlets for frustrations"

By "new dynamic", I mostly meant "POSITIVE dynamic for once". I take the example of Did67: how to try to help a family to rebuild a life less dependent on oil, without judging its behavior, without arousing resentments against - see the list above-, in short BUILD AND MOVE FORWARD instead to whine and hate.
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by georges100 » 13/06/08, 15:14

new dynamics have existed : Mrgreen:
the last one would be ptet the attempt to return to the nature of the hippies ...
the notion of common utility, for example, is very similar to the municipality of paris : Mrgreen:
the perfect environmentalist exists : Mrgreen: we call it a homeless person : Mrgreen: consume a minimum and even recycle corrugated cardboard : Mrgreen:
the less you consume the less you pollute but the less we produce ...
because frankly a profusion without any pollution it is not possible ....

the person responsible for our situation, as we know, is the first prehistoric man who decided to abandon his lifestyle to live solely on the production of bronze : Mrgreen:
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by Christine » 13/06/08, 15:26

Thank you for illustrating my words by example : Mrgreen:
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by bham » 13/06/08, 15:47

Christine wrote: ... It's been 5 years now that this forum exist, it's been decades that we have been warned of the dangers hanging over our faces and we continue to argue, quibble to find out if it's the fault:
......
As far as I am concerned, I admit that these speeches pumped up all my energy and I no longer even have the strength to intervene to try to rectify, relativize, positivize etc.
That's what I mean by "sterile conversations" not to say "outlets for frustrations"

By "new dynamic", I mostly meant "POSITIVE dynamic for once". I take the example of Did67: how to try to help a family to rebuild a life less dependent on oil, without judging its behavior, without arousing resentments against - see the list above-, in short BUILD AND MOVE FORWARD instead to whine and hate.


Ah I understand better but I admit that I find it hard to positivize (but you noticed it : Cheesy: ) so much I have the impression of buttering myself against walls.
Seeking the culprit does not necessarily move things forward, it is true but the problem is this impression of inability to act in the face of an economic machine, this impression of being taken hostage and of not being able to make things change, this need to shake the plum tree and not to succeed. It is extremely frustrating!
Trying to help a family is already very good and probably more on the scale of an individual but I would so much like to do more, on another scale. : Cry:
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by Did67 » 13/06/08, 17:45

Christine wrote:This exchange is very interesting and it is even more interesting to see that it is almost a true copy of an exchange that we had this morning elsewhere in the forum. I allow myself to copy short extracts here:
our entourage - then talk about a Great Evening of Ecology ...

Perhaps we should get down to the task of preparing simple, effective and convincing arguments for the family of which Did67 speaks, who is just getting by financially and who cannot afford to turn around quickly. .. let's say increase in the cost of living?


Effectively. Delighted a second time, because that is also what I wanted to say.

1) I still don't have the figures, but I think that between a third and half of French families have a better situation than mine (question of income). Those, I see no other excuses for them than "it's easier to complain than to think" or "It's easier to complain than to question yourself" ... It's to those I was talking to. This 1/3 to 1/2 represents more than half of the problem of fuel, heating: they more often have a single-family house, more cars, more big cars ... In relation to their children, they should justify themselves! !! They also have easier access to information, etc. I have a little trouble finding excuses for them.

2) It is to them that they should not offer easy arguments like "everything is the fault of the oil lobbies", like "what is the government doing?" or like "it is necessary to lower the taxes" (already that they make legal tax evasion or not, their favorite sport).

3) The "part-time cashier who touches the minimum wage" who was opposed to me, yes, I don't mind making her feel less involved. Yes, I admit she has less of a choice. The angle of attack, for the heating, is simple: it is about the offices of dHLM and the promoters, which it is necessary to force to modify the buildings. There are examples of particularly economical HLMs, with insulation, double flow ventilation, pellet heating ... in Germany.

For travel, what I wrote for me is valid for any family with a car: a car a little more modest (or a good occasion) but just as "big" + 2 scooters is not more expensive than a latest model car with all the options. And I'm not talking about the tuning of the cashier's son !!!
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by georges100 » 13/06/08, 17:53

it's true that 2 2-stroke scooters that pollute that slab :D
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