Clean nuclear energy, possible fast or distant dream?

[Christophe]

Iter, Z-pinch (Z-machine), Fusion ... are they technologies accessible quickly or will we have to wait decades?

This topic follows the discussion onescrology deviating widely in the clean nuclear subject ...

Thanks to the so-called "clean" nuclear defender for continuing here.

[Chatham]

For the moment ITER is still under construction ... and overall in my opinion nothing convincing at this level before at least 20 years at the fusion level, when with the Zmachine alone I do not see for the moment what this could be used for if not for allow beautiful photos and dreams: is only useful for the moment for simulations related to nuclear weapons ...
No new power plants ok, that's feasible thanks to energy savings, but the reactors at the end of their life must be replaced, on the same site, which is envisaged, and feasible for example. in Fessenheim, which avoids dispersing nuclear sites all over the place while ensuring serious surveillance ...

Nuclear power is not good, there is a lot of waste that we do not know how to reprocess or reuse ... but for lack of a high power alternative energy source other than oil, gas, coal, lignite, etc. ... all very ecological as everyone knows ...

France is not Norway or Iceland which has abundant natural energy sources ...

[Cuicui]

For the moment ITER is still under construction ... and overall in my opinion nothing convincing at this level before at least 20 years at the fusion level, when with the Zmachine alone I do not see for the moment what this could be used for if not for allow beautiful photos and dreams: is only useful for the moment for simulations related to nuclear weapons ...

Magnetic containment (ITER) is a technological dead end that will never produce electricity.
The z-machine is used to emit R x to test the "hardness" of nuclear warheads. Indeed, nothing to do with a power plant! But this device unexpectedly showed that the high temperatures necessary for hydrogen-boron fusion can be obtained with rustic means. It now remains to design a nuclear power plant using this principle.
But for that you need funding. For the moment, all the credits are allocated to ITER. In addition, the army refuses that the French z-machine of Gramat is devoted to civilian research. The oil and uranium lobby is probably in no hurry to compete with small, non-polluting hydrogen-boron power plants.

[Arthur_64]

My answer is not very constructive, but I agree with it!

[Chatham]

Magnetic confinement (ITER) is a technological dead end that will never give electricity.

Iter is a development of the Tokamak, a Russian invention, the only system that really worked in fusion, for a fraction of a second ...
Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to say that magnetic confinement is a technological dead end ...

If you know of another way to contain a plasma of a million ° C without roasting everything around, while allowing the recovery of thermal energy, don't be shy: the Nobel Prize guaranteed for you ...

[Tagor]

Iter is a development of the Tokamak, a Russian invention, the only system that really worked in fusion, for a fraction of a second ...

this system presents instabilities which, according to JP Petit,
are not ready to be solved by scientists

it seems to me that the tokamak had, in the past, a few glitches that make you shudder!

this is why JP Petit, which is still a reference in MHD, recommends the z machine

[Tagor]

and what would happen if this project came to fruition:

Mini nuclear reactor could power apartment blocks

19:00 22 August 2001
From New Scientist Print Edition. Subscribe and get 4 free issues.
Peter Hadfield and Michael Fitzpatrick

the internet. http://technology.newscientist.com/chan ... ear/dn1186

they promise for 2010 mini nuclear power plants in each district ...

dream or reality ?

[Cuicui]

Iter is a development of the Tokamak, a Russian invention, the only system that really worked in fusion, for a fraction of a second ...
If you know of any other way to contain a million ° C plasma without toasting everything around.

But no, it's several billion degrees
The 3 billion degrees obtained by the z-machine would have been unable to roast a chicken (apart from a very small piece, which would have been instantly volatilized). The temperature remained acceptable a short distance from the point of impact. Plasma does not need to be contained like in a tokamak. The extremely brief inertial confinement is sufficient to cause the fusion of the fuel dose. The radiation released is immediately transformed into electricity by a winding. It will obviously take a lead envelope to protect operators from R x. The power of thermonuclear explosions depends on the doses of fuels. It will have to be sufficient for the plant to produce more electricity than is needed to initiate the fusion. Ideally, each explosion could initiate the next. Power is however limited by the strength of the materials.
Until now, we only knew of continuous magnetic confinement in a tokamak to hope to obtain a controlled (and radioactive) deuterium-tritium fusion. The very high temperatures obtained by the z-machine have completely changed the situation and make it possible to approach the problem from a very different angle, with a more rustic technology and almost without radioactivity. The problem is currently not a technical one, but a financial one. Our decision-makers prefer to invest enormous sums in techniques without a future (ITER and MEGAJOULES), and neglect the inertial confinement process, which is much cheaper and more efficient, but which does not suit oil and nuclear fission interests.

[Cuicui]

they promise for 2010 mini nuclear power plants in each district ...

Hello Tagor
It's in 2 years ... In France, at the rate at which this research is going, you shouldn't have too many illusions. But it is never too late to influence the action of decision makers.

[Tagor]

In France, at the rate this research is going, you shouldn't have too many illusions.

what research?

the technology I was referring to is led by Toshiba ... and probably not in France

I would be very surprised that in France we thought of decentralizing
energy production (EDF choice = centralize everything => which weakens the production forces and reinforces their weakness in the face of attacks)