Darvaza Hole: Use all gas wisely?

[vinzman]

The hole Darvaza, commonly known as '' the door to hell '' burns from now 35 years.

Why not put a dome to contain all the heat they emit and then s, use it to generate electricity?
As well burn this gas, as much as it used to something, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7we6mz0TyZA

[ggdorm]

The idea is nice I had never heard of this place!

In April 2010, President Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow sign a decree to the extinction of the crater, but it is still active.

Now I think it is a project that would not come true because:

- We do not know how much gas is left and therefore the time that its still going to burn

- Hard to build something above a blaze of 50 m diameter

- It must also carry the electricity produced in the desert

- 50% of people in this country are under the poverty line and 60% are unemployed. The country is mostly gas and cotton.

- With 40 ° in summer, they are more easily accessible thermal energy can be

[Flytox]

If it is not operated, it is better that it burns that pollute the atmosphere methane to the greenhouse effect.

[dedeleco]

The problem is not that hole, but all the methane comes out more slowly in low concentrations, which can not burn all over the earth, and seas, but on huge gigantic surface of our earth around the pole, and Siberia, with the current warming, that releases quickly.

This methane will accelerate the warming will therefore accelerate the release of methane, for finish in an explosive liberation, capable of multiplying by 10, the gas concentration of greenhouse gases, as there 56 millions of years, with a much warmer Earth, the poles without ice 15 ° C and seas 70m higher.
View:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post221911.html#221911
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post221867.html#221867

At that time the dinosaurs had disappeared since 10 million years, there were no major ice caps even before, and therefore much less methane gas stored in the ocean floor that Now, although cooler, which will be released in huge quantities if some heats.

The evidence is a large number of scientific works, even NASA:
Methane May Be Answer to 56-Million-Year Question: Ocean Could Have Enough Contained Methane to Cause Drastic Climate Change

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 111542.htm
Methane Explosion Warmed The Prehistoric Earth, Possible Again
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 163439.htm

http://es.ucsc.edu/~jzachos/pubs/Zachos ... ebe_08.pdf
http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-repor ... apter2.pdf

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsro ... p?id=22096
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/new ... nergy.html
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_th ... oc%C3%A8ne
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene% ... al_Maximum

The passage from the Paleocene to the Eocene, there 55,8 million years, was marked by the most rapid and significant climate disruption Cenozoic. A sudden event caused the global warming, leading to Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM) (Thermal Maximum Paleocene Eocene)Associated with changes in atmospheric circulation and ocean, to the extinction of many benthic foraminifera, and the important renewal of wildlife land mammals which coincided with the emergence of many of the major orders of living mammals.

The event saw global temperatures rise by about 6 ° C over just 20 years, with a corresponding rise in sea levels as all oceans warmed000. Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO1) increased, resulting in an increase in lysocline. The anoxia of some deep water may have played a role in marine extinctions. The event is linked to a decrease in the isotope δ2C, which took place over two short periods (approximately 13 years). This is undoubtedly the consequence of the degassing of clathrates (deposits of "methane ice"), which accentuated a pre-existing tendency to warming. The release of these clathrates, and ultimately PETM itself, may have been triggered by a variety of causes.

An amount of carbon about as wide as current deposits of coal, oil and natural gas entered the Earth's atmosphere during the PETM. Already hot, the earth warmed on average still 5 ° C and then placed over 150 000 years to absorb excess carbon and cool.

A Tremendous release of methane gas frozen beneath the sea floor heated the Earth by up to 13 degrees Fahrenheit (7 degrees Celsius) 55 million years ago, a new NASA study Confirms. NASA scientists used data from a computer simulation of the paleo-climate to better Understand the role of methane in climate change. While MOST greenhouse gas studies focus on carbon dioxide, methane is 20 times more potent as a heat-trapping gas in the atmosphere.

In the last 200 years, atmospheric methane HAS more than Doubled due to Decomposing organic materials in wetlands and swamps and human aided emission from gas pipelines, coal mining, Increases in irrigation and livestock flatulence.

HOWEVER, there is Reviews another source of methane, FORMED from Decomposing organic matter in ocean sediments, frozen in deposits under the seabed.

"We understand that other greenhouse gases apart from carbon dioxide are important for climate change today," said Gavin Schmidt, the lead author of the study and a researcher at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, NY and Columbia University's Center for Climate Systems Research. "This work should help quantify how important they have been in the past, and help estimate their effects in the future."

The study will be presented on December 12, 2001, at the American Geophysical Union (AGU) Fall Meeting in San Francisco, Calif.

Generally, cold temperatures and high pressure keep methane steady beneath the ocean floor, HOWEVER, That might not always-have-been the case. A period of global warming, the called Expired Late Paleocene Thermal Maximum (LPTM) Occurred around 55 million years ago and Lasted about 100,000 years. Current theory HAS linked this to a vast release of frozen methane from beneath the sea floor, qui led to the earth warming as a result of Increased greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

A movement of continental plates, like the Indian subcontinent, May-have Initiated a release That led to the LPTM, Schmidt said. We know today the Indian subcontinent That When Moved into the Eurasian continent, forming the Himalayas Began. This uplift of tectonic plates Would Have Decreased pressure in the sea floor, and May-have Caused the broad methane release. Once the atmosphere and oceans Began to warm, Schmidt added, it is possible to That more methane thawed and bubbled out. Some scientists speculate current global heating Could Eventually Lead to a similar scenario in the future if the oceans warm Substantially.

When methane (CH4) Enters the atmosphere, it reacts with molecules of oxygen (O) and hydrogen (H), OH radicals called Expired. The OH radicals combine with methane and break it up, Creating carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapor (H2O), both, of qui are greenhouse gases. Scientists Previously ASSUMED That All of the released methane Would Be converted to after-CO2 and water about a decade. If That Happened, the rise in CO2 Would Have beens the biggest player in warming the planet. Purpose When scientists tried to find evidence of CO2 Increased levels to explain the rapid warming During the LPTM, none Could Be found.

The models used in the new study show That When You Greatly Increase methane water equivalent, the OH Quickly gets used up, and the extra methane lingerie manufacturers for Hundreds of years, Producing enough global warming to explain the LTPM climate.

"Ten years of methane is a blip, but hundreds of years of atmospheric methane is enough to warm up the atmosphere, melt the ice in the oceans, and change the whole climate system," Schmidt said. "So we may have solved a conundrum."

Schmidt Said the study shoulds help in understanding the role methane plays in current greenhouse warming.

"If you want to think about reducing future climate change, you also -have to be aware of --other greenhouse gases than carbon dioxide, like methane and chlorofluorocarbons,"said Schmidt." It gives a more rounded view, and in the short-term, it may end up being more cost-efficient to reduce methane in the atmosphere than it is to reduce carbon dioxide. "

ScienceDaily (Nov. 9, 2011) - The massive release of water equivalent of carbon from methane hydrate frozen under the seafloor 56 million years ago has-been linked to the greatest change in global climate since a dinosaur-killing asteroid presumably hit Earth 9 Earlier million years. New calculations by Researchers at Rice University show That this long-controversial scenario is quite possible.

Nobody knows for sure what started the incident, there's no doubt aim Earth's temperature rose by as much as 6 degrees Celsius. That affected the planet for up to 150,000 years, until, excess carbon in the oceans and atmosphere Was reabsorbed into sediment.

Earth's ecosystem changed and Went Many species extinct During the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM) 56 million years ago, When at least 2,500 gigatonnes of carbon, Eventually in the form of carbon dioxide, Were released into the ocean and atmosphere. (The era is Described in great detail in a recent National Geographic feature.)

A new report by Rice scientists in Nature Geoscience suggests that at the time, even though methane-containing gas hydrates - the "ice that burns" - occupied only a small zone of sediment under the seabed before the PETM, there could have been as much stored then as there is now.

This is a concern to Those Who believe the continued burning of fossil fuels by humans Could someday Reviews another trigger feedback loop That disturbs the stability of methane hydrate under the ocean and in permafrost; Could this exchange warm the atmosphere and prompt the release of wide water equivalent of methane, a greenhouse gas More Powerful than carbon dioxide.

Some who study the PETM blame the worldwide burning of peat, volcanic activity or a massive asteroid strike as the source of the carbon, "but there's no crater, or any soot or evidence of the burning of peat," said Gerald Dickens, a Rice professor of Earth science and an author of the study, who thinks the new paper bolsters the argument for hydrates.

The lead author is graduate student Guangsheng Gu; Co-authors are Walter Chapman, the William W. Akers Professor in Chemical Engineering; George Hirasaki, the AJ Hartsook Professor in Chemical Engineering; and alumnus Gaurav Bhatnagar, all of Rice; and Frederick Colwell, a professor of ocean ecology and biogeochemistry at Oregon State University.

In the ocean, organisms die, sink into the sediment and decompose into methane. Under high pressure and low temperatures, methane molecules are trapped by water, qui freezes into a slushy substance Known as gas hydrate That stabilizes in a narrow band under the seafloor.

Warmer oceans before the PETM Would Have Made the stability area for gas hydrate thinner than today, and Some scientists-have argued Would this allow for much less hydrate than exists under the seafloor now. "If the volume - the size of the box - was less than today, how could it have released so much carbon?" Dickens asked. "Gu's solution is that the box contains a greater fraction of hydrate."

"The critics said, 'No, this can't be. It's warmer; there couldn't have been more methane hydrate,'" Hirasaki said. "But we applied the numerical model and found that if the oceans were warmer, they would contain less dissolved oxygen and the kinetics for methane formation would have been faster."

With less oxygen to consume organic matter on the way down, more sank to the ocean floor, Gu said, and there, with seafloor temperatures higher than they are today, microbes that turn organic matter into methane work faster. “Heat speeds things up,” Dickens said. "It's true for almost all microbial reactions. That's why we have refrigerators."

The result is that a stability zone smaller than what exists now may have held a similar amount of methane hydrate. "You're increasing the feedstock, processing it faster and packing it in over what could have been millions of years," Dickens said.

While the event that began the carbon-discharge cycle remains a mystery, the implications are clear, Dickens said. "I've always thought of (the hydrate layer) as being like a capacitor in a circuit. It charges slowly and can release fast - and warming is the trigger. It's possible that's happening right now."

That makes it important to understand what occurred in the PETM, he said. "The amount of carbon released then is on the magnitude of what humans will add to the cycle by the end of, say, 2500. Compared to the geological timescale, that's almost instant."

"We run the risk of reproducing that big carbon-discharge event, but faster, by burning fossil fuel, and it may be severe if hydrate dissociation is triggered again," Gu Said, Adding That methane hydrate aussi offers the potential to Become a valuable source of clean energy, as burning methane EMITS much less carbon dioxide than fossil fuels --other.

The calculations should encourage geologists who discounted hydrates' impact during the PETM to keep an open mind, Dickens said. "Instead of saying, 'No, this cannot be,' we're saying, 'Yes, it's certainly possible.'"

land there 56 million years
.

[chatelot16]

if it was a large methane flame out of a hole we put pourait think there a cover and recover methane

Alas these video I see a bunch of small lights returned over a large area: work to capture all this will be huge and not even

there methane coming out of the ground and BTW is more serious because it does not burn

I think the only steady methane hydride at low temperature frozen in the basement of the Polar Region

it would not be good to use this methane before global warming does so out

between poluer miserably with detergent to force out the gas shale, it would be little more heat in polar soil to exploit the gas that will soon be lost if we do not exploit

[dedeleco]

it might be good to use this methane before global warming does so out

but already this methane comes on slowly over immense surfaces in one realizes it, with that crisp, clear warming.

And it is very difficult to collect the methane that it fulfills all our cold ground for a long time, what multiply our CO10 2, 56 as there are millions of years.
Read the previous post !!

[chatelot16]

it is dificult to collect the methane comes out too slowly anywhere

but if one of tarpaulin covers an area that is warmed voluntarily this is may be possible

I know nothing precise has the geology of the area or there are these hydride methane, so this is only an idea in the air

but with the rising price of energy which is too complicated today will can be profitable in no time

I'll talk to someone who worked at GDF underground storage of methane, which is a great specialist methane in all forms ... it is precisely he who explained to me the real problem of gas schist

[dedeleco]

Oil has the same problem, but it sometimes brings with luck in pockets or domes that trap, and that can exploit, with also a lot of gas.
So same problem as for oil, some gas pockets and many scattered everywhere underground, much more difficult, but in much larger quantities.
Gaz de France has a huge underground storage pocket memory.
Wilkipedia still look for gas instead of oil, namely minimum before speaking!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaz_naturel
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockage_d ... _et_du_gaz

Methane hydrates are solid structures containing methane prisoner. They are from relatively recent accumulation [ref. required] ice containing organic waste, degradation is biogenic. We find these hydrates in permafrost or on the ocean floor. The volume of gas existing in this form is unknown, ranging from several orders of magnitude depending on the study [What?]. No cost-effective technology currently allows to exploit these resources.

In 1970 the distribution of underground stock was done as follows: ....
Currently there are ethylene storage facilities in Viriat, near Lyon, in Beynes in the Yvelines for the storage of natural gas, in Manosque for the storage of crude oil, in Petit-Couronne for propane and butane derivatives, at Lavera for liquefied petroleum gas, and at May-sur-Orne, near Caen.

Companies like Géostock has many of these cavities leased to refiners and other independent users.

Some shales also contain methane trapped in their cracks. This gas is formed by the breakdown of kerogen present in the shale, but as coal gas, there are two major differences from the reserves of conventional gas. The first is that the shale is both the source rock and its gas tank. The second is that the accumulation is not discrete (lots of gas gathered in a restricted area) but continues (the gas is present in low concentrations in a huge volume of rock), which requires a specific technique. The current technique (2011) restraint is to use fracking in combination with horizontal drilling, which allows to reach a larger rock volume with a single drill. The fracturing comprises fracturing pockets of gas by injecting a liquid comprised of water and additives, some of which may be toxic. Each well may be fractured several dozen times, each fracturing consumes between 7 and 28 million liters of water which only a portion is recovered. It was found, including the United States, this practice was endangering the eco-système4. The use of toxic chemicals can pollute groundwater, when this is not the gas itself that presents a risk sanitaire5 for anyone living near a source of extraction6. The operation in France remains heavily criticized. Jean-Louis Borloo, Minister for Ecology, authorized the start of drilling in the south of France before the government cancels these autorisations7.

[chatelot16]

free the shale gas by fracturing or fracking is the micro corecte politically partisan explanation of this operating

Physical reality is that the porous rock containing gas is gas impermeable to both what is wet because of the capillary

to push out the gas must mix the detergent with water

ca is the horror! put the detergent in the ground will not only bring out the methane ... it will sabotage all definitely what makes the purity of the water table ... all kind of filth present in certain soil layer will dissolve and there will be more that dirty water in aquifers

reheat permafrost before it warms itself is anyway less worse