Canadian Well: Materials Prohibited?

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Forhorse
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by Forhorse » 30/08/12, 10:09

Grelinette wrote:I do not know if my question is good but a Canadian (or Provençal) who sends fresh or hot air can settle pretty easily on any home: it is enough to have a mouth of arrival which propels the air from the basement directly into the home with a simple filtration.


No, because this type of solution involves several health risks: radon, molds
Not to mention the smell that there is usually in a basement.
It is not for nothing that the implementation of a Canadian well is as delicate, both in the choice of materials as realization.
And just because some people tinker with a piece of TPC sheath is not the solution and they take no risk for their health.

Grelinette wrote:Unless transferring the calories of the fluid to the air that will be propelled into the home, but in this case is there any loss of calorie transfer that makes this technique less efficient?


Yes it is this method that is normally used. And indeed the yield is less good than with a conventional Canadian well since there is a double exchange: first the land / water exchange and then the water / air exchange
This is a big drawback of this system, which makes it necessary to "oversize" the system compared to a Canadian well.
But to compare 2x40m of vitrified pipe in 200 and 400m of HDPE pipe in 32, I am not sure that the advantage is at first.

Frankly, try to concretely envisage the installation of a "classic" Canadian well at home, find out about the equipment, the difficulties of implementation (waterproofing, installation of the inspection manhole, condensate evacuation, entry into home) and I'm pretty sure 80% of you will look more seriously at Canadian water wells, even if you have to lose a bit of yield.


Grelinette wrote:Are there any comparative sketches of these Canadian 2 technical puzzles?


By searching the net and consulting the forums who talk about it, we manage to find feedback.
It may not always be very objective, but it still shows that a Canadian water well is "not that bad" than that.

Me anyway me choice is done.
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by Forhorse » 30/08/12, 10:18

chatelot16 wrote:the polyethylene pipes support the gel very well without bursting so no need for antifreeze


The pipe maybe, the water / air battery exchanger certainly not! If for one reason or another (power failure for example) water circulation stops on a beautiful winter night at -15 ° C, you can say goodbye to your exchanger.
In addition, since the goal is normally to get fresh air entering the house through this exchanger (to stay in the Canadian well principle) the battery is normally in close contact with the outside, so it can quickly freeze .
Personally I would not take the risk: a hundred euros of glycol or an exchanger 2500 € at the first blackout, the choice is quickly made.
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by chatelot16 » 30/08/12, 13:20

I do not see the interest of warming the outside air by a Canadian well: for that a double flow exchanger is sufficient

whatever the outside temperature, the double-flow heat exchanger gives ventilation air almost at the inside temperature: preheating the outside air with a Canadian well is useless at all:

for me the only usefulness of the soil heat is to maintain frost free parts that do not need to be really heated ... or give calories to a heat pump
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by Forhorse » 30/08/12, 15:58

chatelot16 wrote:I do not see the interest of warming the outside air by a Canadian well: for that a double flow exchanger is sufficient



You did not understand anything about the Canadian well. A little reading on this subject would be beneficial to you (there are many websites devoted to it, otherwise the book I refer to at the beginning of the subject costs 9 € in any good bookstore and in some DIY stores)
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by chatelot16 » 30/08/12, 16:08

ventilation with air heated by a Canadian well is a little better than winding with cold air

but I find that a good double flow exchanger is better than the Canadian well to warm the ventilation air

the Canadian well may be of interest because of the huge price of the commercial double-flow exchanger
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by Forhorse » 30/08/12, 16:47

The Canadian is a very good complement to a double flow VMC, and it can be the source of big savings.

Some explanations :
Let's say that the outside temperature is 5 ° C; with a DF without PC the air entering the exchanger is 5 ° C
The same situation with a PC, we will say that at the input of the exchanger will be 10 ° C (since we normally connect the PC output on the input of the DF)
the inlet temperature being higher, the delta temperature in the exchanger is lower, in the worst case it reduces the efficiency of the exchanger is the gain is zero: the air output of the exchanger is at the same temperature with or without PC ...
But in practice, we read regularly a higher blowing temperature with a PC than without, so there is a slight gain.

Now imagine that it is very cold, the outside temperature is now -10 ° C
Without a PC, the air entering the exchanger is therefore at -10 ° C
What happens in the exchanger?
We have hot, humid air coming from the inside which will "meet" the very cold air from the outside.
I pass the details on the curve of saturated vapor, the dew point, all that all that ... in short in the exchanger it condenses ... except that there the walls of the exchanger is very cold, and condensation freezes !!!
Two scenarios:
- It is a low-end DF, without heating battery: the heat exchanger ends up being completely clogged by frost and ice, are yield collapses, it is no longer used for anything and the house is not even more ventilated.
- It is a DF with heating coil: the regulation detects a risk of icing of the exchanger and starts the heating battery = additional electricity consumption. The VMC turns into a bad fan coil (all the more annoying if we do not heat up just with electricity)

Now same scenario but with a PC:
The air leaving the PC will be 0 ° C or 1 ° C, the risk of freezing the DF exchanger is minimized, the heating battery is not activated, or for less time. We save a lot of electricity and improve the flow temperature of the fresh air.

Now without VMC dual flux but with a single VMC or VMI, I think the interest of bringing fresh air into the house at 0 ° C rather than at -10 ° C does not need to be Explain.
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by sen-no-sen » 30/08/12, 17:01

Forhorse wrote:(...) I think that the interest of bringing fresh air into the house at 0 ° C rather than at -10 ° C does not need to be explained.


In addition, the Canadian well * is also a great way to cool the summer.

* The Canadian well is in fact of Provencal origin, concept itself inherited from the Romans.
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by chatelot16 » 30/08/12, 17:35

if we make a big saving of electricity by avoiding the electric defrosting of the double flow exchanger, it is that this double flow is bad

the simple ventilation without double flow or Canadian well makes a loss of heating relatively limited ... if the defrosting of the double flow is a big electrical consomation, it is better to stop it and to be satisfied with a simple ventilation

the idea of ​​using a Canadian well to avoid electric de-icing is very good! there is not even a need for a sufficient Canadian well to warm up above 0 ° C all the airflow ... we can let the double flow exchanger operate at low temperature until it freeze, then stop the ventilation and thaw it with the Canadian well

my corrugated iron exchanger is good for thawing or cleaning by pouring water into it! the water of a buried pipe is suitable! and a smaller area than a typical Canadian well should be enough
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by bobono » 06/09/12, 13:12

I am in the process of studying to put a Canadian well on my home.

50 Put pipes of special well diameter 250 = 800 € hum.

Taking water in a 20 well put in deep well with an 10 air-to-water heat exchanger makes it seem simpler to me.

First step for me the measurement of Radon in my home with my current breakdown. In Brittany, in ancient dwellings, his fear is great.
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by bobono » 17/09/12, 12:40

First measurement of my 150 becquerels radon detector by M / 3 average over 48 hours in Brittany.

For indicates less than 400 b / 3 do not need to take special ventilation measures.

I will be able to undertake the construction of my Canadian well with the objective of bringing fresh air into the house but at a higher temperature than outside air for the winter.

For information heating wood so indoor air consumption of the habitat. Buy polypropylene pipe groove inside read 14 diameter I do not have the price yet
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